[Call to Order]
[00:00:06]
GOOD EVENING. IT IS TUESDAY, OCTOBER 29TH, 2024 AT 6:30 P.M. I'D LIKE TO CALL THIS MEETING OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO ORDER. CAN WE HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? MISS LOUD HERE. MR. NAGEL IS EXCUSED. MR. FISHER HERE. MR. MISS ROBERTS HERE. MR. ROBERTS HERE
[APPROVAL OF MINUTES:]
THANK YOU. HAS EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MEETING MINUTES OF THE OCTOBER 1ST, 2024 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING? AND IF SO, ARE THERE ANY ADDITIONS, SUBTRACTIONS, REVISIONS TO THE TO THE AGENDA TO THE MINUTES? NO. SEEING NONE. MOTION TO APPROVE. I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE SEPTEMBER OCTOBER FIRST. OCTOBER 1ST WHAT? I HAD TO LOOK AT THE CALENDAR. ALRIGHT. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. OPPOSE THE SAME. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. AT THIS TIME WE HAVE THE SWEARING IN OF CITIZENS. IF YOU FEEL YOU, THERE IS A CHANCE YOU MAY BE SPEAKING AT ALL. TODAY. WE ASK THAT YOU STAND UP. I'M GOING TO READ THE OATH AT THE END OF IT. I'M SORRY. RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AT THE END OF IT. SIGNAL BY SAYING I WILL. DO YOU DECLARE THE TESTIMONY THAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO GIVE WILL BE THE TRUTH AND THE WHOLE TRUTH, UNDER THE PAINS AND PENALTIES OF A FRIEND OF. ALL RIGHT. AND THAT MOVES US TO CITIZEN COMMENTS. SO[CITIZEN COMMENTS:]
ANY CITIZENS WISHING TO SPEAK TONIGHT ON A NON-AGENDA ITEM, WE ONLY HAVE ONE ITEM ON THE AGENDA THAT THE REVISION TO THE SIGN CODE. IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE, YOU HAVE UP TO FIVE MINUTES. WE ASKED YOU GO TO THE PODIUM, STATE YOUR NAME, ADDRESS AND THE FLOOR WOULD BE YOURS. HELLO? WHO IS IT? I'M A SIMPLE ONE. WHO? IT'S A BRAWL. I JUST WANT TO THANK NAME AND ADDRESS. I'M SORRY. NO WORRIES. OFFICIALLY, MARGARET. MICHAEL. OKAY. BUT MEG IS WHAT I GO BY.AND 1000 NORTH MAPLE IS MY OFFICIAL ADDRESS. AND I JUST WANTED TO THANK ALL OF YOU FOR GIVING SO MUCH OF YOUR TIME, FOR BEING ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION, BECAUSE I, I DIDN'T REALIZE UNTIL RESPONSIBILITY HAS BEEN SHIFTED TO THIS GROUP, AND IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME AND THOUGHT. NOT JUST WHAT YOU DO HERE, BUT WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO OUTSIDE OF HERE IN RESEARCH AND FINDING THINGS OUT. AND THIS POSITION DOESN'T PAY. I DON'T KNOW IF IT PAYS AT ALL, BUT IT'S VERY, VERY, VERY IMPORTANT. AND IT'S GIVING OF YOUR TIME. AND I, I APPRECIATE IT. SO I JUST WANTED TO TELL YOU THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND I WILL JUST SAY CITY STAFF HELPS US A WHOLE LOT. BUT I DO APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS. ARE YOU GOING TO BE AS NICE? KATHY, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO BE AS NICE? YOU BETTER BE. YOU GUYS ARE WONDERFUL. STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
NAME, NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE. SORRY, SHE INTERRUPTED ME. I WAS GETTING THAT I KNOW, 25 WEST EIGHTH STREET, KATHY YOUNG. APPARENTLY THE WHOLE AND THEY DON'T THINK IT'S A CONCERN. I THINK IT'S A CONCERN, YOU KNOW. SHARON WALLS. THE MAGISTRATE OBVIOUSLY THINKS IT'S A CONCERN. AND I'VE ALSO TALKED TO JUDGE ROGERS, WHO SEEMS TO THINK IT'S A CONCERN, TOO. I THINK WE NEED TO PUSH FORWARD REGARDLESS OF WHAT PUBLIC SAFETY SEEMS TO THINK. I JUST JUST TO CLARIFY ONE THING. IT WASN'T THE OCCUPANT CONCERN AS FAR AS WHO WAS STAYING IN THE HOUSE AS IT WAS, WHETHER OR NOT BOARDING HOMES AS A LAND USE SHOULD BE ADDED TO PERMITTED USE IN ANY OF THE DISTRICTS, PERMITTED OR CONDITIONAL. IS THAT A SAFETY THING? THAT'S JUST A THAT'S A USE THAT'S NOT LISTED IN OUR AS A PERMITTED OR CONDITIONAL USE IN OUR ZONING CODE. IT'S DEFINED BUT IT'S NOT LISTED IN ANY DISTRICT. SO THAT'S WHAT PUBLIC SAFETY SERVICE HEARD WAS WHETHER OR NOT THAT SHOULD MOVE FORWARD AS A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT. SO HOW DO MORE THAN TWO UNRELATED PEOPLE. THEN IT BECOMES A BOARDING HOUSE. IT'S NOT AN ISSUE OF WHO THE TENANTS ARE. IT'S THE LAND USE OF INDIVIDUAL ROOMS BEING RENTED OUT VERSUS A SINGLE HOUSE HOUSEKEEPING UNIT. SO HOW DO YOU GET AN 18 YEAR OLD TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD A $2,500 HOUSE? THAT'S
[00:05:03]
WHERE IT WOULD. IF BOARDING HOUSES WERE MOVED TO A CONDITIONAL OR PERMITTED USE, THAT'S HOW YOU WOULD ACHIEVE THAT. IT'S JUST GETTING THIS SHIP THERE. I DON'T I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION, BUT THAT WAS HOW ARE WE GOING TO GET THAT SHIP TO THAT DOCK? I KNOW WHEN MY DOG WAS BEING FOR THE FIRST TIME IN COLLEGE, SHE AND TWO GIRLFRIENDS LIVED TOGETHER AND EVERYONE PITCHED IN 600 BUCKS A MONTH. SO WE HAD THREE UNRELATED PEOPLE SHARING EXPENSES. IS THAT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.TO A LANDLORD, AND THE ISSUE IS RENTING INDIVIDUAL ROOMS WITHIN A HOUSE. SO SHOULD WE SADDLE A FOSTER KID WITH A $2,500 PAYMENT? I'M NOT ARGUING. I'M JUST CLARIFYING. I'M. YEAH, BUT CAN YOU SEE MY POINT? YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE THEM GO INTO A CONTRACT FOR $2,500, WHEN ONLY A THIRD OR A FOURTH COULD BE THEIR RESPONSIBILITY. DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A PUBLIC SAFETY. I MEAN, TEENAGERS ARE PUBLIC SAFETY. THAT'S JUST THE COMMITTEE THAT THOSE BEFORE LIKE A TEXT AMENDMENT IS PROPOSED AND RESEARCHED AND TAKEN TO PLANNING COMMISSION AND IT GOES TO THAT COMMITTEE FIRST. IT'S ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY, SAFETY SERVICE AND THERE'S THREE COUNCIL MEMBERS ACTIONS BEFORE WE SEEM TO PLANNING COMMISSION. ALL RIGHT.
SO IS IT THAT THAT SUBCOMMITTEE SPOKE AND DIDN'T FEEL TO MOVE IT ON TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION? THAT IS CORRECT. WE CAN READDRESS IT. WE CAN. WE CAN ASK THEM, YOU KNOW, WE CAN PROVIDE AN UPDATE TO SOME OF THE DISCUSSION TONIGHT. WE CAN SPEAK TO CITY MANAGER AND TO PRESIDENT COUNCIL AND SEE HOW WE WANT TO GO FORWARD. THEN WITH THAT IF YOU'D LIKE. OKAY. I THINK WELL, I GUESS JUST TO PIGGYBACK ON THAT, I THINK IT WAS COUNCIL WASN'T GOING TO INITIATE THAT ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT. SO IF IT WERE PLANNING COMMISSION TO BRING IT THROUGH, I THINK THAT'S A SEPARATE PROCESS. BUT WE CAN WE CAN TRY TO CLARIFY THAT. AND TO CLARIFY, KATIE BOUGHT THE PLACE AND RENT IT TO. SO I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT TOO, BECAUSE THEN THE OWNER IS LIVING THERE. YEAH, RIGHT. BUT I MEAN, THAT SHE WAS RENTING. YEAH. BUT. YEAH. I MEAN, IF THERE'S A WAY FOR ME TO MOVE IT INTO A CONDITIONAL USE IN SOME AREAS, I MEAN, I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF MOVING FORWARD WITH IT. I JUST DON'T KNOW MY LIMITATIONS, SO. OKAY. WE CAN WE CAN DISCUSS IT AND GIVE YOU AN UPDATE. ALL RIGHT. SUSAN SPOKE. I THINK JUST WATCHING. OKAY. REPORT OF THE
[REPORT OF ADMINISTRATION:]
ADMINISTRATION. YEAH. SO A COUPLE ITEMS. SO TONIGHT'S REQUESTING A VOTE TONIGHT. WE JUST WANT TO PROVIDE KIND OF AN UPDATE AND OVERVIEW OF, OF KIND OF WHERE WE'VE COME TO WITH THE SIGN CODE. SO JUST AS A HEADS UP ON THAT, AND THEN ALSO AT COUNCIL LAST NIGHT, THE REQUEST TO PROHIBIT DISPENSARIES WAS DENIED. SO THOSE WILL BE PERMITTED WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.SO WE WILL BE COMING BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION NEXT WEEK AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING WITH THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO THE ZONING CODE AND WE'LL REQUEST YOUR YOUR VOTE ON THOSE ITEMS AT THAT TIME. AND WE HAVE SOME OF THE INFORMATION FROM WHEN THAT WAS A DISCUSSION ITEM EARLIER THIS MONTH. SO WE WILL TAKE THAT FEEDBACK AND PREPARE SOME, SOME AMENDMENTS. WILL WE GET AN UPDATED AGENDA. WE WILL TRY TO SEND THAT OUT AHEAD. YEAH JEFF IT. SO WE WILL ACTUALLY PROBABLY HAVE TO REQUEST A VOTE TO ADD THAT TO THE AGENDA, BECAUSE IT WAS IN THE LEGAL NOTICE. WITHOUT IT, SINCE IT WAS KIND OF A LAST MINUTE THING. SO WE CAN ADD THAT TO THE BEGINNING IF THAT IS PREFERRED FOR EVERYONE. SO HOW ARE WE GOING TO FORCE THE
[00:10:04]
APPLICANTS? ARE. QUESTION ON ADVERTISING WHEN YOU MODIFY AN AGENDA IN THE MEETING IS A WEEK AWAY. HOW DOES THE PUBLIC RECEIVE NOTICE OF WHAT THE AGENDA CHANGES? YEAH, SOMETIMES WE WILL REPUBLISH THAT IN THE NEWSPAPER. SO IT GOES BACK OUT AHEAD OF TIME. AND OTHER TIMES THAT'S WHY IT HAS TO WE REQUEST THEM TO CONSIDER THE AGENDA ITEM. AND THEN IF THEY VOTE TO ADD IT TO THE AGENDA IT GOES ON. SO IT'S YEAH. IS THAT WHAT TO HAVE INTEREST IN. NOW IT WAS AT CITY COUNCIL AND WE HAD AT PUBLIC PUBLIC HEARING THERE WERE MAYBE 3 OR 4 PEOPLE THAT SPOKE. IT'S JUST A MATTER THAT THE ZONING NEEDS TO BE IN PLACE BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR, BECAUSE THE MORATORIUM ENDS. SO WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THE ZONING LANGUAGE IS IN PLACE. AND SO, SO THAT'S WHAT WOULD BE BECAUSE ONCE WE APPROVE ZONING LANGUAGE, IT THEN GOES TO CITY COUNCIL. YOU KNOW. SO IT'S JUST A TIMING. MR. CHAIRMAN. AND WE ALSO HAD SORRY, LESLIE, WE ALSO HAD THAT DISCUSSION AT IN THE OCTOBER PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING TOO. WAS ANYONE WAS THERE PUBLIC HERE FOR THAT AT ALL? IT WASN'T. YEAH. OKAY.OKAY. I JUST TO CLARIFY, THROUGH THE TIMELINE, IF IT GOES ON OUR NOVEMBER MEETING MEANS COUNCIL CAN VOTE DO A FIRST READING IN NOVEMBER, SO WE'RE STILL WORKING OUT HOW WE CURRENTLY HAVE ONE. AT FIRST READING RIGHT NOW WITH THE MODIFICATIONS FROM FROM PLANNING COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATION IN OCTOBER. SO WE MIGHT BRING A NEW LEGISLATION, EITHER AMEND IT OR BRING SOMETHING NEW FORWARD. I'M JUST CURIOUS IF THERE'S ANY ANY TIMELINE THAT ALLOWS US TO STILL GET THIS ON PUBLIC MEETING WITH NOTICE AND HAVE IT ON OUR DECEMBER MEETING AND STILL GET IT WOULD IT WOULD NOT. NO, WE WOULD. WE PRETTY MUCH HAVE TO BE TO THE NOVEMBER I THINK IT'S THE 12TH IS THE COUNCIL MEETING NOW. THERE WILL BE NOTICE ALSO AT THE COUNCIL LEVEL. AND THERE'LL BE NOTICE FOR THAT PUBLIC HEARING TOO AT SECOND READING, AT COUNCIL. ALL RIGHT. IT MOVES US
[1. To hear an application for a Zoning Code Amendment to Part Eleven - Zoning Code, Section 1129 – Signs and Appendix – Glossary of Terms.]
ON TO NEW BUSINESS. AND OUR ONE ITEM OF GLOSSARY OF TERMS. SO I HANDED THAT OFF. YEAH. SO THIS IS JUST KIND OF AN OVERVIEW. WE'VE HAD A STEERING COMMITTEE WORKING ON THIS SIGN CODE FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF TO TWO YEARS NOW. AS WE'VE BEEN WORKING THROUGH IT, WE DID THIS SEPARATELY FROM THE GENERAL ZONING CODE, JUST BECAUSE WE KNEW IT WAS GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF EFFORT AND DETAIL AND FOCUS. SO WE DO HAVE ZONE CO, OUR CONSULTANT SEAN IS HERE THIS EVENING WITH US TO PRESENT AN OVERVIEW OF WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED. AND THEN WE'LL KIND OF LEAVE IT OPEN, OPEN DISCUSSION AS WE GO THROUGH. AND ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS YOU MAY HAVE. GO AHEAD SEAN. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. GOOD EVENING EVERYONE. MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, MEMBERS OF THE THEN THE CITY'S ZONING CODE CONSULTANT FOR ABOUT FIVE YEARS NOW. WE WROTE THE CODE REWRITE. I GUESS THAT'S GOING ON FOUR YEARS AGO, AT LEAST. MAYBE FOUR AND A HALF. AND WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE CITY ON THE SIGN CODE FOR THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF, TWO YEARS. I HAD SEVERAL STEERING COMMITTEE MEETINGS AND ALL CULMINATES IN THIS DRAFT, WHICH IS AVAILABLE NOW FOR YOUR REVIEW AND PUBLIC REVIEW. THE IDEA HERE IS FOR YOU TO PUT YOUR SIGN HATS ON AND THINK ABOUT DIMENSIONS AND SIZE, AND CAN BE A LITTLE TRICKY IF YOU'RE NOT INTO SIGNS, BUT HOPEFULLY WE'VE MADE IT AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE WITH GRAPHICS AND WHATNOT SO THAT YOU CAN GET A FLAVOR FOR THE SIGN MENU, AS WE'RE CALLING IT FOR MARYSVILLE. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO WE COMPLETED A KICKOFF A WHILE BACK. NOW WE CALIBRATED TALKING ABOUT SIGNS. IT'S ALL ABOUT COUNT, SIZE, MATERIALS AND ILLUMINATION. OKAY, TIME, PLACE AND MANNER. ESSENTIALLY. LOCATION. NOT ABOUT CONTENT. RIGHT. WE HAVE TO STAY AWAY FROM CONTENT BECAUSE OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT. SO WE CALIBRATED STANDARDS BASED ON OUR FEEDBACK[00:15:04]
FROM THE PUBLIC STAFF. ET CETERA. AND OUR OWN INDEPENDENT RECOMMENDATIONS AS SIGN CODE CONSULTANTS TO GET YOU TO WHERE YOU ARE NOW, WHICH WE THINK IS AN EFFECTIVE SIGN. YOU ALWAYS WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE EFFECTIVE FOR THE BUSINESSES, RIGHT? BUSINESSES ARE THE ONES THAT PRIMARILY USED SIGNS AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE DOING THAT IN A WAY THAT HELPS THEM RIGHT, TO GET THEIR BRAND OUT OF THEIR MESSAGE OUT, BUT ALSO AT THE SAME TIME AS CONTEXT SENSITIVE TO MARYSVILLE. WE DON'T WANT A ONE SIZE FITS ALL. YOU DON'T WE DID FOR YOU ALL, AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR YOUR FEEDBACK AS THE EXPERTS ON MARYSVILLE AND WHETHER WE HIT THE MARK OR NOT. CODIFICATION IS WHERE WE ARE NOW. WE'VE PUT THIS IN A DRAFT FORM, WHICH YOU HAVE, AND THAT'S THAT'S WHERE WE ARE AT THE MOMENT. NEXT SLIDE. SO CURRENTLY YOUR EXISTING SIGN CODE IS JUST A WEB OF CROSS-REFERENCES. IT REALLY KIND OF OBSCURES THE INFORMATION A USER MIGHT BE LOOKING FOR. IT'S JUST A LOT OF WORDS AND IT'S NOT VERY MUCH IN LOGICAL ORDER. SO THESE ARE ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE IN IT. BUT YOU HAVE TO KIND OF CROSS-REFERENCE IT. IT BECOMES A BIG TANGLED WEB AND MODERN SIGN CODES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE MORE INTUITIVE AND A LOT MORE PICTURES AND GRAPHICS AND CHARTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO YOU CAN EASILY SAY, OH, I'M IN THIS DISTRICT AND THIS IS MY USE. HERE'S HOW MANY SIGNS I CAN HAVE. HERE'S WHAT THEY CAN SO A LOT OF SIGN CODES THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES ARE STILL CONTENT BASED, EVEN THOUGH THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES RULED IN 2015. NOW, I THINK IT'S BEEN MAYBE 2016. IN THE REED VERSUS GILBERT CASE THAT YOU CANNOT MAKE DECISIONS, ZONING DECISIONS ABOUT SIGNS BASED ON THE CONTENT. IT'S NOT A NEW IDEA. IT'S JUST REINFORCING AN OLD IDEA THAT YOU HAVE TO BE CONTENT NEUTRAL WHEN YOU'RE REVIEWING YOUR SIGNS. AND THEY CLARIFIED WHAT THAT MEANS. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU HAVE SOMETHING CALLED REAL ESTATE SIGNS. THE EASIEST WAY TO THINK ABOUT THIS IS IF YOU HAVE TO READ THE SIGN TO KNOW WHAT IT IS THAT'S CONTENT BASED. SO A SQUARE SIGN IN A YARD THAT SAYS FOR SALE VERSUS ONE THAT SAYS POTLUCK DINNER COMING THIS WEEK. THOSE ARE IF THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT SIGNS IN YOUR SIGN CODE, THAT'S A PROBLEM, RIGHT? SO IT'S THE SAME SIGN. YOU CAN ONLY REGULATE THE SIZE THE LOCATION THAT WAS THAT WAS PROBABLY THE FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS IS TO CLEAN THAT UP. BUT THAT CAN BE A LITTLE BIT JARRING FOR FOLKS BECAUSE WE DO THIS IN COMMUNITIES ALL OVER. AND INVARIABLY SOMEONE WILL SAY, WELL, WHAT ABOUT REAL ESTATE SIGNS? THEY SAY, WELL, WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT REAL ESTATE SIGNS ANYMORE. WE CAN TALK ABOUT YARD SIGNS SMALL OR YARD SIGNS LARGE.WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE. SO THAT WAS THAT WAS A BIG, BIG SOMETHING. YOU KNOW CLEANUP THAT WE HAD TO DO IN YOUR CODE. USE TYPE IS HOW IT'S ORGANIZED BY AND DEVELOPMENT TYPE. EVEN SO IT'S JUST KIND OF HARD TO FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOUR USES, WHAT YOUR DEVELOPMENT TYPE IS AND THEN LOOK AND SEE WHAT THE CONTENT IS. IT'S ALL LIKE I SAID, IT BECOMES KIND OF THIS NOT USER FRIENDLY, NOT REFLECTIVE OF THE COMMUNITY'S DESIRES, NOT MODERN, AND FRANKLY, NOT REALLY LEGALLY DEFENSIBLE. AT THIS POINT. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO WE'VE REORGANIZED THE MOST PEOPLE WILL START WITH HERE'S WHAT I WANT, RIGHT? HERE'S WHAT I'M ENVISIONING. I WANT TO SIGN FOR MY WALL ABOVE MY ENTRANCE. OKAY, SO WE WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ON WHAT THAT IS. THAT'S A WALL SIGN. OKAY. COOL WALL SIGN. ALL RIGHT. HOW MANY CAN I HAVE IN THE UC DISTRICT OR WHEREVER? OKAY. THIS MANY. HERE'S THE SIZE, HERE'S THE ILLUMINATION, BLAH BLAH BLAH. SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'VE LAID OUT THE MENU OF SIGNS IS A PERMANENT REQUIRED FOR EVERY SINGLE SIGN. NO. SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE VERY CLEAR ON WHEN YOU NEED A PERMIT AND WHEN YOU DON'T. WHAT ABOUT EXEMPT SIGNS? YOU KNOW WHAT OF A FLAG? WHAT ABOUT IF I PUT UP THE MARYSVILLE CITY FLAG? DO I HAVE TO COME IN HERE AND GET A PERMIT? YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE THE ANSWER IS NO, BUT THOSE ARE THE THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT. AND REALLY WHAT THAT DOES IS IT NOT ONLY HELPS THE PUBLIC TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON AND WHAT THEY CAN AND THAT'S ANOTHER BIG PART OF THIS.
SO IF I WANT TO PUT UP A BILLBOARD, I CAN LOOK REAL QUICK. OH, THAT'S NOT ALLOWED.
AND WE WANT IT TO BE THAT CLEAR. AND WE'VE LAID THIS OUT IS WE'VE CREATED THESE SIGN TYPES AND THEN SIGN TYPE PERMISSIONS BY ZONING DISTRICT. SO ONCE YOU KIND OF SAY, YOU KNOW, I'M
[00:20:07]
LOOKING TO PUT UP A PROJECTING SIGN OFF MY BUSINESS, YOU CAN EASILY GO TO THE CHART AND FIGURE OUT IF THAT SIGN IS ALLOWED IN YOUR DISTRICT, THAT YOUR PROPERTY IS IN, AND THEN IF YOU KNOW WHAT IT CAN, WHAT THE DIMENSIONS ARE, WHERE IT CAN BE, HOW HIGH IT CAN BE, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF, ACCOUNT DIMENSIONAL ILLUMINATION STANDARDS. WE WANT THOSE TO BE VERY CLEAR. SO YOU CAN SEND THIS THE GOAL HERE IS, YOU KNOW, MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT CREATING THEIR OWN SIGNAGE. BUT IF I'M ORDERING A NEW SIGN FOR MY ABLE TO QUICKLY FIGURE OUT WHAT CAN THAT'S REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE BY THE STAFF. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE WANT SOME UNIFORMITY TOO, AND WE WANT SOME PREDICTABILITY FOR THE COMMUNITY, BUT ALSO THE BUSINESS OWNER. AND THEN ALSO THROUGHOUT THE CODE, THE MORE, MORE GLOBAL SORT OF THINGS THAT EVERYONE NEEDS TO KNOW. MEASUREMENTS. HOW DO YOU MEASURE THIS STUFF? THIS CAN BE A LITTLE BIT TRICKY TO WRITE OUT, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU MEASURE A SIGN THAT IS NOT SQUARE? AND THEN PERMIT PROCEDURES RELATIVE TO SIGNS? WE WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT. AND THEN THE AGE OLD QUESTION, WHAT ABOUT MY SIGN THAT'S BEEN ON MY BUILDING FOR 25 YEARS? CAN I KEEP IT? CAN I TAKE IT DOWN AND REPLACE IT? ALL THOSE QUESTIONS WE WANT TO ANSWER THOSE FOR THE PUBLIC AS WELL. THAT'S IN THE NONCONFORMITY SECTION. OF COURSE, THERE ARE VIOLATIONS. IF YOU'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES, WHAT HAPPENS? SO ALL OF THAT IS OVER THE EXISTING CODE CONTENT NEUTRAL. THAT'S IMPORTANT VERSUS CONTENT BASED. WE, LIKE I SAID, EXPLAINED. WITH GRAPHICS, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT MEASURE, YOU KNOW. DESCRIBING MEASUREMENTS, THE NUMERICAL MEASUREMENTS ONLY IN WORDS IS JUST KIND. OF HARD. SO IT'S NICE TO HAVE A GRAPHIC TO GO ALONG WITH THAT. WE TALKED ABOUT MORE REFINED EXEMPT SIGNS LISTS, MORE ROBUST DESIGN STANDARDS, MORE ROBUST ILLUMINATION STANDARDS, LIGHTING OF SIGNS CAN REALLY AFFECT THE ESTHETICS AND ALSO THE PUBLIC SAFETY OF A SIGN. SO AND HOW IT AFFECTS PUBLIC SAFETY I SHOULD SAY. SO YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ON WHAT TYPE OF ILLUMINATION IS ALLOWED OR NOT ALLOWED. AND LET'S SEE, LIMITED. WE DID ALLOW PROPOSE ALLOWING LIMITED ELECTRONIC MESSAGE CENTERS FOR CIVIC. AND WE CAN TALK MORE ABOUT ASSIGNED TABLE. WE TALKED ABOUT SIGNS EITHER PERMITTED OR BY CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT MURALS. WE TO MAKE SURE WE ADDRESS THEM AND HOW THEY ARE APPROVED. COMMERCIAL BANNERS POSTED PANEL SIGNS. BIG ONE IS YARD SIGNS. ESPECIALLY THIS TIME OF YEAR WITH ELECTION COMING UP. CAN I HAVE A 300 YARD SIGNS WITH ALL MY FAVORITE PEOPLE ON IT? WELL, WE CAN'T TELL YOU WHO, RIGHT? AND WE CAN'T DISTINGUISH BETWEEN POLITICAL AND NONPOLITICAL. WE CAN JUST TELL YOU HOW MANY AND WHERE THEY CAN GO. SO WE WANT TO MAKE IT SIMPLE TO ENFORCE SITE TRIANGLE, YOU KNOW, PUT SIGN ON THE CORNER. CAN YOU DO THAT. SO THERE'S A SITE TRIANGLE. WE'VE ADDED WHICH, WHICH GIVES A FREE YOU KNOW, CLEARANCE FOR CARS AT GLOSSARY OF TERMS, MAKING SURE THAT YOU KNOW ALL THESE SIGNS.TERMS. SIGN TERMS ARE WELL DEFINED, CLEARLY DEFINED TO AVOID SO THESE ARE THE SIGN TYPES WE CAME UP WITH FOR MARYSVILLE. YOU CURRENTLY HAVE JUST ABOUT EVERY SIGN THAT'S EVER BEEN INVENTED, RIGHT? AND THAT'S OKAY. BUT THESE ARE THE SIGNS WE CAME UP WITH WE THOUGHT WERE MOST PREVALENT AND MOST DESIRED IN THE COMMUNITY. YOU HAVE A BUILDING MOUNTED CANOPY SIGN ON THE FAR UP UPPER LEFT THERE. THAT'S, YOU KNOW, TENDS TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE URBAN IN STYLE, BUT YOU MIGHT SEE SOME OF THOSE EVERY NOW AND AGAIN ON A CANOPY.
THE BUILDING ENTRANCE SIGN IS KIND OF A NICE SMALL SIGN. YOU MIGHT SEE THAT IN A PROFESSIONAL OFFICE SETTING OR SOMETHING. YOU KNOW, DOCTOR, WHATEVER ATTORNEY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THE AWNING SIGN CAN ALSO, YOU KNOW, BE AND THEN OF COURSE, WE DO HAVE A IN OUR TIME FRAME. GOD BLESS YOU. TIME FRAME FOR THAT. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. MAYBE WE SHOULD JUST CALL IT MURAL. MURAL? THAT ISN'T A SIGN, BUT MURAL. THERE'S A POLE SIGN, A MONUMENT SIGN,
[00:25:05]
AND A WHAT WE CALL A GROUND MOUNTED CANOPY SIGN. IT'S LIKE YOUR BANK DRIVE THROUGH OR DRIVE THROUGH SIGN OVER YOUR YOUR CANOPY. NEXT SLIDE. VEHICULAR USE AREA SIGN. WE USED TO CALL THESE DIRECTIONAL SIGNS, BUT WE'RE TRYING TO BE AS CONTENT NEUTRAL AS POSSIBLE. SO YOU'LL SEE THOSE A LOT OF TIMES AT BANKS, FAST FOOD RESTAURANTS, THINGS LIKE THAT. AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'VE ADDRESSED THOSE BECAUSE THEY CAN BE IMPORTANT. AND WAYFINDING AND MAKING SURE PEOPLE KNOW WHERE ENTRANCES ARE. THE POST AND PANEL SIGN. THAT'S REALLY A NICE SORT OF SMALL TOWN HISTORIC LOOKING SIGN THAT CAN WE KIND OF LIKE WHAT'S SEEN THERE, PROJECTING TOWN'S SETTING ALSO COULD BE APPROPRIATE IN OTHER RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL SETTINGS, AND THEN THE PORTABLE SIDEWALK SIGN, WHICH YOU MIGHT SEE AROUND YOUR DOWNTOWN IN PARTICULAR. SO SOMETIMES THEY'RE CALLED SANDWICH BOARD SIGNS AND WINDOW AND DOOR SIGNS. SEE HOW MANY SIGN TYPES THERE ARE. YOU CAN START THINKING ABOUT IT. IT'S WILD. WINDOW AND DOOR SIGNS. YOU KNOW. YOU SEE THOSE WALL SIGNS ARE PROBABLY THE MOST PREVALENT OF ALL. YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF THOSE IN YOUR DOWNTOWN. VEHICULAR USE AREA SIGN. THAT'S SORT OF LIKE CLEARANCE. YOU KNOW, 11FT OR WHATEVER. AND THEN THE YARD SIGN. YOU SEE LOTS OF THOSE AROUND RIGHT NOW. NEXT SLIDE. SO, YOU KNOW, REALLY WHERE WE AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I THINK I'M NOT SURE WILL DO THEIR THING AND LEGISLATIVE THING AND MAYBE WE'LL WRAP THIS, PUT A WRAP ON THIS AND GET IT ADOPTED. OKAY. SO WITH THAT WE HAVE THE DRAFT HERE. I HOPE YOU'VE ALL SPENT JUST COUNTLESS HOURS REVIEWING EVERY WORD OF IT. I'M SURE THAT'S NOT TRUE. AND THAT'S OKAY. WE CAN CERTAINLY KIND OF WALK THROUGH IT IF YOU'D LIKE OR IF YOU'D PREFER JUST TO PROVIDE COMMENTS IF YOU HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT IT. YOU KNOW, ASK ME ANY QUESTIONS. HOWEVER YOU WANT TO DO THIS. IT'S FINE BY ME. IF WE GO BACK TO THE I THINK THE SECOND OR HOST AND PANEL. YEAH. SO WOULD THAT ALSO INCLUDE. BECAUSE I DON'T THINK I SAW THE EXAMPLE FOR SO SO IT WOULD FALL UNDER THAT.YES. WE HAVE SEVERAL OF THOSE AROUND TOWN. HEY, SHAWN, THE PORTABLE SIDEWALK SIGN. YES.
WHAT ARE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES DOING? WE HAVE A WE HAVE A BUSINESS IN THE HISTORIC UPTOWN.
IT'S THE ART LEAGUE THAT THEY'RE USING THAT AS THEIR PERMANENT SIGN. THEY DO BRING IT IN AND OUT. IN AND OUT. BUT DO YOU? WHAT ARE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES DOING WITH SIGNS LIKE THAT? KIND OF A AS A PERMANENT SIGN? I HAVEN'T SEEN IT BEING USED AS A PERMANENT SIGN. HOWEVER, I WILL SAY THAT MORE AND MORE BUSINESSES ARE USING THEM EVERY DAY, SO IT MIGHT AS WELL BE RIGHT. USUALLY THEY'RE COUPLED WITH ANOTHER TYPE OF SIGN, LIKE THE WALL SIGN OR SOME OTHER AND YOU CAN ERASE AND CHANGE THE MESSAGE ON THEM EVERY NOW AND AS THE MATERIALS YOU CAN GET SOME REALLY CHINTZY PLASTIC LOOKING ONES OUT THERE THAT MAYBE DON'T, YOU KNOW, ENHANCE YOUR BEAUTIFUL, HISTORIC DOWNTOWN. SO WE TRY TO, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT THE MATERIALS AS IT WOULD. IS IT METAL? THAT KIND OF THING? PLACEMENT ON THE SIDEWALK IS REALLY IMPORTANT. SO COMMUNITIES ARE REGULATING THAT. YOU'LL SEE THAT IN HERE. IT CAN'T. SOMETIMES THEY'LL PUT IT RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SIDEWALK. WELL THAT'S NOT VERY NICE FOR PEDESTRIANS, BUT ALSO PEOPLE THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, IN WHEELCHAIRS ETC. THEY CAN'T GET THROUGH THERE. SO WE MAKE SURE THAT IT HAS TO BE, YOU KNOW, A CERTAIN DISTANCE FROM THE DOOR. SO IT'S NOT BLOCKING THE SIDEWALK. AND IT'S RELATING TO THAT BUSINESS. IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT PUTTING IT ALL THE WAY, COME ON, YOU KNOW, HALF A MILE PRETTY MUCH WHAT COMMUNITIES ARE CONCERNED ABOUT. AND HAVE TO BRING THEM IN WHEN YOUR BUSINESS CLOSES. YOU CAN'T JUST LEAVE IT OUT THERE 24 OVER SEVEN. I HAVE SEEN IT WHERE SOMEONE WILL PUT A CHAIN AROUND IT AND CHAIN IT TO THE WALL AND JUST LEAVE IT THERE INDEFINITELY. THAT'S NOT A
[00:30:03]
PORTABLE SIDEWALK SIGN AT THAT POINT. IT'S A PERMANENT FIXTURE IN YOUR DOWNTOWN. SO IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD TO ENFORCE TO SOMEONE GOING TO BE OUT THERE LIKE AT 9:00 PM, LIKE GET YOUR SIGN OUT OF HERE. BUT IT IS, YOU KNOW, LIKE ANYTHING IT WOULD BE COMPLAINT DRIVEN IF SOMEONE WAS MAKING IT A PERMANENT SIGN AND CONTACTED THE CITY AND SAID THEY DON'T EVER MOVE THE SIGN THAT CITY WOULD BE ABLE TO GO AND CITE THEM FOR THAT. SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'VE GOT A FOLLOW UP.SO FOLLOW UP QUESTION TO THE PORTABLE SIDEWALK SIGNS. I NOTICED THAT THEY ARE LISTED AS A PERMIT REQUIRED SIGN. I'M GOING TO DIRECT A HANDFUL OF UPTOWN BUSINESSES THAT USE THESE. I HAVE TO GUESS NOBODY HAS PERMITS FOR THOSE IT'S A PROJECT THAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING INTERNALLY TO GO AROUND DURING BUSINESS HOURS AND JUST LET BUSINESS OWNERS KNOW, HEY, THERE'S A PERMIT REQUIRED FOR THIS. IT USED TO BE YOU HAD TO RENEW IT EVERY YEAR. WE CHANGED THAT TO JUST A ONE TIME PERMIT. ONE TIME PERMIT FEE. AND THEN LET THEM KNOW YOU KNOW, THE LOCATION AND DURATION REQUIREMENTS. IT'S JUST A PROJECT THAT HASN'T BEEN A SUPER HIGH ON OUR PRIORITY LIST, BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE WORKING ON AND ADDRESSING. AND THEN FOLLOW UP TO THAT FOR SPECIAL EVENTS. IS THAT SOMETHING WE CAN WORK INTO OUR EVENT LICENSE SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET A SECONDARY SANDWICH? SORRY. PORTABLE SIDEWALK SIGN PERMIT. IN ADDITION TO AN EVENT PERMIT. WE COULD LOOK AT THAT. OR MAYBE JUST ADD ON THE PERMIT SPECIFIC IF YOU'D LIKE TO PAY FOR TWO PERMITS. YEAH. HAVE A CHECK BOX ON THERE OR SOMETHING. OKAY. SPEAKING OF SIGN FEES. OH. I'M SORRY.
OR IS THAT SOMETHING LIKE WE'RE OPEN SO WE'RE OPEN TO DISCUSSION HERE. IF YOU GUYS THINK WE SHOULDN'T HAVE A PERMIT OR YOU WANT TO CHANGE A SIGN TYPE OR SIZE. SO THIS IS TOTALLY OPEN. I THINK WE LIKE YOU SAID, IT'S MOSTLY COMPLAINT DRIVEN FOR ENFORCEMENT ANYWAY. BUT I DON'T WANT TO SET UP OUR SMALL BUSINESSES FOR FAILURE FOR THEM TO NOT REALIZE THAT THEY COULDN'T PUT A SALE SIGN OUT TODAY BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE A PERMIT. YEAH. AND IN MY OPINION, I WOULD THINK PORTABLE SIGNS DON'T NEED TO BE PERMITTED. WHY? WHY ARE THEY PERMITTED RIGHT NOW? JUST BECAUSE I THINK BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE HAVEN'T BEEN PROPERLY USING THEM. I THINK WHEN IT WHERE THERE'S LIMITED AREA FOR PEDESTRIANS IN THE UPTOWN, SO THEY WANTED TO HAVE RULES IN PLACE THAT SAY IT HAS TO BE WITHIN THREE FEET OF YOUR ENTRANCE THAT IS KIND OF EASIER TO EDUCATE PEOPLE. AND DO WE FEEL LIKE THAT IS MORE OF A CONCERN IN OUR UPTOWN VERSUS ALL THE CITY LIMITS? I THINK THE CONCERN IS HIGHER IN THE UPTOWN. YEAH, I THINK THERE'S A LOT MORE USED IN THE UPTOWN THAN ELSEWHERE. SO THEN I WOULD MAKE A PLUG THAT TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE A QUASI GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY THAT WORKS WITH OUR SMALL BUSINESSES. AND THIS COULD BE SOMETHING WE COMMUNICATE TO THEM, UPDATING THEM THAT THIS IS NOT PERMITTED. BUT PLEASE FOLLOW SOME OF THESE STANDARDS. I MEAN, I'M KIND OF IN FAVOR. AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS SILLY, BUT WHEN I HEARD IT WAS JUST A ONE TIME, YOU KNOW, NON ANNUAL, IT'S JUST, HEY, YOU HAVE TO FILL OUT THE PERMIT SO THAT YOU RECOGNIZE THESE ARE THE RULES. OH, I DON'T EXPECT YOU TO KNOW EXACTLY. 50 BUCKS, MAYBE SOMETHING WE COULD ALSO. MAYBE AT LEAST ANNOTATE ON OCCUPANCY FORMS. OH, WAIT, THAT'S COUNTING SUGGEST, BECAUSE AGAIN, I JUST DON'T WANT TO SET UP OUR SMALL BUSINESSES FOR FAILURE TO REALIZE THAT THEY COULDN'T PUT OUT A SALE. SIGN THAT RIGHT BEFORE THANKSGIVING, THEY WERE PUTTING A THANKSGIVING SALE SIGN OUT AND THEY'RE LIKE, OH, I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS SUPPOSED TO DO THIS. AND WE WOULD JUST GO. THEN WHEN THAT HAPPENS, WE JUST GO TO THEM AND SAY, HEY, CAN YOU FILL OUT THIS FORM? AND YOU KNOW, THERE WASN'T A LARGE PENALTY FOR IT SET OUT WITHOUT A PERMIT, BUT JUST MAKING THEM AWARE. SO ON THE SIGN APPLICATION IT HAS RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THAT SPECIFIC ZONE. WE HAVE A COPY. IS THAT AVAILABLE FOR US TO LOOK AT. IT SHOULD BE ON OUR WEBSITE.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE A COPY WITH THE PRESENTATION TONIGHT OF OUR CURRENT SIDEWALK SIGN APPLICATION, BUT THEY'RE PERMITTED IN THE UPTOWN DISTRICTS CHANGING GEARS JUST A LITTLE BIT. SO ONE THING I WAS THINKING OF EVERY TIME, ESPECIALLY IN THE UPTOWN DISTRICT, WE HAVE A PROJECTING SIGN. BUT IF IT'S NOT ALREADY, I MEAN, WE USUALLY SAY IT IN CASE WE FORGET. I'D LIKE TO HAVE. YEAH. I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE A
[00:35:01]
BAD THING TO INCLUDE IN THERE. SO THAT IF THEY MISSED THAT DURING DRB OR SOMETHING, IT'S IN THE CODE. AND WE CAN PUT THAT IN OUR STAFF REPORT. ALSO EASIER TO CONTINUOUSLY ENFORCE. SO SPEAKING OF KIND OF BUILDING OFF OF THAT, WHEN WE'RE PUTTING IT INTO THE MORTAR AND NOT INTO THE ACTUAL BRICK, WOULDN'T THAT MAKE IT A PERMANENT INSTEAD OF A. NO, NO, I WAS TALKING ABOUT PROJECTED SIGNS. OH, I THOUGHT YOU SAID SORRY. NO, NO. YEAH. THAT'S PROJECTING. NO PROBLEM LIMIT DISCUSSION ITEMS. YEAH. THROUGH THE STAFF REPORT, WE HAD BUSINESS OWNERS OR CITIZENS. I WANTED TO COME IN AND WE COULD GO THROUGH THE CODE WITH THEM, ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. SO WE HAD KIND OF A HANDFUL OF ITEMS THAT CAME OUT OF THAT THAT WE WANTED TO SHARE WITH YOU AND MAYBE HAVE SOME OPEN DISCUSSION TONIGHT. OKAY. I SEE THE FIRST ONE IS DOES A PROJECTING SIGN WITH ADDITIONAL SIZE NEED TO GO TO BZA. SO THAT SO THAT IS WE HAVE SIZE LIMITS. AND IF THEY WANT TO GO LARGER THEY GO TO BZA WHICH IS WHAT THEY CURRENTLY DO. CORRECT. SO OUR CHOICE COULD BE TO NOT EVEN ALLOW A BZA REVIEW. YEAH. YEAH. SO I THINK THAT THAT SECTION IS FOR IF THEY'RE OVER A CERTAIN SIZE, BUT THEY'RE, IT'S A NON-RECTANGULAR SHAPE, THEN THEY DON'T NEED A VARIANCE. IT'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW. SO WHAT THE CODE SAYS, AND THEY WANTED SOMETHING LARGER THAN THAT. THEN THEY WOULD YES. OKAY. YOU SAID PART OF THIS WAS HOW TO MEASURE A SIGN.CORRECT. COULD WE? BECAUSE I KNOW THERE WAS ONE CORNER OF FIFTH AND MAIN. SOUTHWEST CORNER. I THINK WEST. I'M BLANKING ON THE NAME OF IT. IT WAS AROUND WITH A RECTANGLE IN THE MIDDLE AND HOUSTON. HOW? HOUSTON BLOCK? YEAH. HOW HOW HOW THE SQUARE INCH WAS CALCULATED.
I DIDN'T AGREE WITH BECAUSE I THINK THEY TOOK IT AS ESSENTIALLY A SQUARE SIGN. SO HOW ARE WE MEASURING THAT? SO THAT'S THAT WAS KIND OF OUR BASIS FOR THAT TOPIC. I THINK THAT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE. AND WE FELT THE SAME WAY THAT NOW THERE'S SO MUCH TO THEIR BOUNDARY. YEAH. NOW GRAPH DOWN HERE. SO CURRENTLY IN THE DRAFT, I THINK THERE'S STILL SOME AREAS WHERE WE WERE TRYING TO DO IT AS KIND OF TYPICAL SHAPES. BUT THEN WE WERE TALKING INTERNALLY AFTER THESE PUBLIC MEETINGS AND WE WERE THINKING MAYBE WE JUST LITERALLY OUT OUTLINE THE BOUNDARY. THE APPLICANT CAN SHARE THAT INFORMATION WITH US. IF THEY DON'T, WE DO HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY TO MEASURE THAT, AS LONG AS IT'S TO SCALE. SO WE WANTED TO GET YOUR FEEDBACK ON THAT. IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE JUST MEASURING THE ACTUAL SHAPE OF THE SIGN WHEN IT COMES TO A PROJECTING SIGN LIKE THIS. AND WE'RE IN THE STEERING COMMITTEE COMMITTEE, WHY WE WERE PUTTING THAT BURDEN ON THE APPLICANT, WERE WE NOT? SOMETIMES THOSE ITEMS DON'T GET FULFILLED, BUT SO WE DO HAVE A BACKUP, YOU KNOW. BUT WE WOULD SAY TO THEM DO WE HAVE UPPER LIMITS ON LONGEST DIMENSION? FOR EXAMPLE. THE ANSWER. YES. ALREADY. MAX MAXIMUMS. YES. OKAY. LET'S SAY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S 100IN■!S, I DON'T WANT IT TO BE ONE INCH TALL AND 100IN LONG. RIGHT? VERY HARD TO READ, BUT. OH, YOU MEAN YOU MEAN MINIMUMS? NO, NO, A MAXIMUM A MAXIMUM WIDTH WOULD BE 100IN BY ONE INCH. OH, YEAH. YEAH YEAH. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY SOMETHING AT DRB WE WOULD BE LIKE, NO, THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. YEAH I JUST I WOULDN'T WANT THE ARGUMENT TO BE I MEAN OBVIOUSLY THAT WAS AN EXTREME EXAMPLE, BUT I WOULDN'T WANT THE ARGUMENT TO BE. BUT I HIT MY SQUARE INCHES. YEAH. WHEN APPLICANTS ARE SUBMITTING THEIR SIGNS, ARE THEY USUALLY SENDING YOU A CAD FILE? HOW ARE THESE SUBMISSIONS CATCHES. ARE THEY ARE THEY REALLY? TYPICALLY A PICTURE OF WHAT IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE IN THE MEASUREMENTS. IF IT'S ARE THEY PROFESSIONALLY DESIGNED? MOST OF THESE SIGNS, IT DEPENDS. IT'S REALLY THE APPLICATIONS YOU SEE AT DRB THAT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GETTING SOME OF THE HANDWRITING'S WE SEE. OKAY. SOME OF THE. YEAH. IT'S
[00:40:06]
JUST IT KIND OF VARIES. BUT NOW SOMETHING LIKE A PROJECTING SIGN TYPICALLY COMES FROM A SIGN COMPANY. RIGHT. AND IT'S A LITTLE MORE WELL THOUGHT OUT. THAT APPLICATION AND SPECIFICALLY SIGNS THAT ARE GOING TO REQUIRE BUILDING PERMITS AS WELL BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO HAVE STAMPED ENGINEER DRAWINGS FOR THE BUILDING PERMIT PORTION OF THE APPLICATION. SO ON THE APPLICATION, WE HAVE WHAT IS THE DIMENSION, WHAT IS IT? SQUARE INCHES AND YEAH, IT HAS THE HEIGHT OF THE SIGN SQUARE THE AREA. SO SQUARE FEET, MATERIALS PROJECTION OR ILLUMINATION THAT OF THE STAFF HAVING THE BURDEN TO PROVE THAT IT DOES OR DOES NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENTS. IT SAYS PROVING THAT EACH PROPOSED SIGN COMPLIES WITH ALL SIGN STANDARDS, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ALL DIMENSIONAL STANDARDS SET FORTH HEREIN, AND SOLBERG AND HIS BOLDFACED RIGHT. WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT WITH A PROJECTING SIGN LIKE THAT. I JUST I FORGET THE SQUARE INCH DIMENSION. IS THAT JUST ONE SIDE OF IT? YEAH. YEAH. IT'S NOT A DUPLICATE. SO I'M ASSUMING IT WAS A TWO DIMENSIONAL ONE. COMES WITH A SIGN THAT HAS THREE. THREE. OH I SEE. YEAH. SO THE ONE THING THAT WE WERE ENCOURAGING THROUGH THE STEERING COMMITTEE DISCUSSIONS WAS TRYING TO GET SIGNS THAT ARE MORE CREATIVE IN THE UPTOWN, ESPECIALLY, LIKE IF YOU HAD A SCHOOL SUPPLY STORE, A LARGE PENCIL OR SOMETHING. SURE. SO CALCULATING THAT 100IN LONG AND ONLY ONE. YEAH. CALCULATING THAT FEELING RIGHTEOUS. I THINK THAT'S WHERE SOMETHING LIKE THAT PENCIL. THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE MORE THAN 40FT■!S, WHICH IS A NONRECTANGULAR MAXIMUM. SO I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE QUESTION WAS. IF THEY DO SUCCEED, THAT 40FT■!S, DO THEY HAVE TO GET TO GET A VISA? OR IT CAN BE ARGUED THAT WITH THAT KIND OF DIVERGENCE FROM THEM, TO WHICH I MEAN, I THINK I THINK THAT SHOULD ALWAYS BE AN OPTION. I MEAN, LIKE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULES AND WE HAVE THAT IN PLACE, RIGHT? I MEAN, SO WE WOULDN'T NEED A PANEL, RIGHT? YEAH. HOW WOULD WE DETERMINE THAT THOUGH. HOW WOULD HOW WOULD ONE SAY, I DON'T FEEL LIKE THIS SHOULD GO TO VISA? I FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD VOTE ON THIS NOW. WELL, I THINK IT'S IN THE DRAFT THAT IF SPECIFICALLY FOR THE PROJECTING SIGN ON THOSE THERE'S A LIST OF FOOTNOTES, AND ONE OF 40FT■!S SO THAT THAT NEGATES THE NEED FOR A FOR THAT SPECIFIC INSTANCE. BECAUSE I THINK PART OF THE OTHER REASON, WE'RE ONE OF THE OTHER REASONS WE'RE UPDATING THE SIGN CODE IS THAT THE NUMBER OF VARIANCE REQUESTS WE GET AT BCA. RIGHT. OKAY. SO THAT'S KIND OF CONTRADICTS THAT.IF WE'RE GOING TO SAY YOU CAN GO TO 40FT, BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO GO BACK TO BCA. SO. RIGHT. JUST FOR THAT WE'VE USED THAT FOR SURE. YEAH. YOU CAN ASK FOR WHATEVER YOU WANT. YEAH.
RECENTLY. YEAH. YEAH. SO IF IT'S A KIND OF A IF IT'S A TYPICAL PROJECTING SIGN, MAYBE JUST A CIRCLE OR A RECTANGLE. AND IT EXCEEDS. IS IT EIGHT SQUARE FEET STILL OR TEN AND TEN SQUARE FEET IS WHAT WE UPPED IT TO. IF IT'S 15FT■!S. DO YOU GUYS STILL WANT THEM TO GO TO BCA AND HEY, ZACH, HOW MUCH IS A VISA APPLICATION FEE? IS IT 100? I DON'T KNOW. FOR COMMERCIAL, I THINK IT'S 150. RIGHT? THEY CAN JUST BUT THEY PROBABLY HAVE TO COME TO DESIGN FOR THINGS OTHER THAN THE SIGN ALREADY. YEAH. IT DEPENDS. SOME WE GET A LOT THOUGH FROM UPTOWN THAT IT'S JUST A SIGN. OKAY. AND THERE'S JUST SAID THEY'RE PROBABLY COMING TO DESIGN WITH MORE THAN JUST A SIGN. YEAH. HOW OFTEN DOES BCA REJECT AN APPLICATION OR A SUBMITTAL? PERCENTAGE? MAYBE 4%. 5%. MAYBE LESS. I DON'T HAVE THAT SPECIFIC. YEAH.
I'M JUST I MEAN, I THINK MOST OF THE TIME, IS IT JUST RELATED TO THE QUANTITY OF SIGNS, WHICH IS THINGS THAT WE TALK ABOUT AT DRB TOO, IS YOU HAVE YOU HAVE SIX SIDES SIGNS ON THE ONE SIDE OF THE BUILDING. LIKE, YEAH. YEAH ANGLES THAT THEY MAKE. HAVING I'M THINKING OF DAIRY QUEEN WITH THE HARDSHIP IS TO WHY THEY CAN'T MEET THE CODE. SO IT'S ON THE APPLICANT TO MAKE THAT. ONE OF OUR MEMBERS COULD SPEAK TO THAT AS WELL. THAT'S PROBABLY THE LAST ONE THAT GOT DAIRY
[00:45:07]
QUEEN. DAIRY QUEEN. IT WAS APPROVED, RIGHT? DAIRY QUEENS? YEAH, IT WAS DAIRY QUEEN. THEY MODIFIED THEIR REQUEST. OH, SO THEY THEY REDUCED THE NUMBER OF SIGNS. YEAH. ARE WE STILL ON AS A THING? BECAUSE I WANT TO TALK ABOUT MATERIALS NEXT. I THINK WE'RE STILL ON. BUT HOW ABOUT ARE WE ALL IN AGREEMENT? ACTUAL SQUARE FOOTAGE, SQUARE INCH AS OPPOSED TO. WE TOUCHED ON THAT THEN WE SURFACE BEING THE MEASUREMENT. YEAH. AND THEN IF YOU'RE ON A SIGN LIKE THIS, IT'S GOING TO BE MEASURED A LITTLE I THINK THERE'S ANOTHER EXAMPLE ALSO, JEFF, MAYBE ON THE PAGE BEFORE THIS OR SOMEWHERE. NOPE. SO THERE'S A COUPLE EXAMPLES THROUGHOUT THIS SECTION HERE THAT TALK ABOUT HOW THOSE SIGNS ARE MEASURED. I BELIEVE WE HAD AN APPLICATION, AN APPLICANT WITH A WINDOW SIGN THAT BASICALLY JUST INCLUDED, LIKE THE LETTERING, NOT THE WHOLE BOX. I DON'T REMEMBER IT WAS MAYBE A YEAR AND A HALF AGO AND WE LAUGHED THEM OUT OF THE ROOM, I DON'T KNOW. YEAH. I THINK WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH A WINDOW SIGN LIKE OKAY? YEAH. I WOULD LIKE US TO HAVE A BETTER, A BIGGER SAY IN NOT PUTTING THE ■VISA. AT DRB. THAT WAS SO THAT WOULD BE AT DRB. RIGHT. SORRY. I SAY US. NO.YOU'RE FINE. WELL, I THINK WHAT YOU'LL FIND WITH, WITH THIS PROPOSED CODE IS THE NUMBER OF VARIANCE REQUESTS WILL GO DOWN BECAUSE THERE'S A GREATER NUMBER OF ALLOWANCES FOR QUANTITY AND AREA. SO I THINK THE INSTANCES OF BUSINESSES ASKING FOR MORE WILL LIKELY GO DOWN. AND WE CAN GO THROUGH THAT TOO. I WOULD LIKE TO FOLLOW UP WITH THAT. I GUESS MY ONLY CONCERN WOULD BE AND I'M NOT I'M JUST PLAYING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE HERE. WHAT STOPS THEM FROM ALWAYS ASKING FOR A LARGER SIGN THAN WHAT WE STANDARDIZE IN OUR CODE? I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE THAT ADDITIONAL STEP WE CAN GO THROUGH THIS. FOLLOW THE CODE TO THE LETTER IF THEY WANT TO PUSH FOR IT. WE COULD APPROVE IT IN DRB AND MAKE THEM GO TO THE NEXT STEP. AND THEN AS PART OF THAT CODE SPECIFIC TO THE PROJECTING SIGNS WAS IF YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING CREATIVE, THAT'S WHERE YOU GET THAT EXTRA SQUARE FOOTAGE WITHOUT HAVING TO GO TO BCA, YOU'RE THINKING OF A PRELIMINARY APPROVAL TO THEM TO GET TO BCA. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? WELL, THEY WOULD STILL COME TO US. CORRECT. AND IF YOU KNOW, IF THEY WANT A LARGER SIGN, MAKE THEM MAKE THE ADDITIONAL EFFORT. AND WITH OR WITHOUT OUR RECOMMENDATION, WELL, WE WOULD WE WOULD BE I'M ASSUMING WE WOULD RECOMMEND. RIGHT, RIGHT. WELL PEOPLE CAN GO. APPROVAL STILL HAS TO GO RIGHT TO THE BCA IF IT'S NOT SO. BUT WE CAN ALSO DISAPPROVE IT. AND THEY GO TO BCA AS WELL.
THAT'S TRUE. YEAH. SO RECOMMENDED THAT WE SUPPORT THIS GREEN CIRCLES. YEAH. I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU AT ALL. THAT'S THAT'S A STRONG POINT. YEAH, I THINK WE THAT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION. I THINK WE MAKE A YEAH I HAVE A QUESTION, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHEN IS MY TIME TO ASK A QUESTION. WHEN WE'RE. YEAH. TYPICALLY AT THE END THERE'S CITIZEN COMMENTS. BUT THIS IS A LOT MORE OF A DISCUSSION THAN MOST. SO YEAH, I THINK IT'S ALSO THE CROWD IS A LOT SMALLER. I'M SORRY. WHAT'S THIS HAS TO DO WITH MONUMENT SIZE? WE MIGHT WE'LL GET WE'LL PROBABLY GET THERE. YEAH WE'LL GET THERE. HERE SHORTLY. OKAY. SO AS FAR AS A PRETTY GOOD FEEL ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS WITH PROJECTING SIGNS IT COULD BE ANY TYPE OF SIGN WE HAD ORIGINALLY IN THERE THAT EXPOSED NEON WAS PROHIBITED, BUT WE FELT LIKE IN THE UPTOWN, THAT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT'S PERMITTED. NOW IF YOU GUYS ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT THAT AT THE STEERING COMMITTEE, AND IT JUST DIDN'T GET TRANSFERRED INTO THE
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THIS DRAFT. MAYBE. MR. CHAIR. REGARDING PROJECTION SIGNS, DO WE HAVE A PROJECTION LENGTH FROM THE BUILDING NOTED. I SEE ON HERE THAT I THINK WE JUST CALL IT SIZE, NOT NECESSARILY A PROJECTION. AND THEN A FOLLOW UP. DO WE DELINEATE BETWEEN THE AREA OF THE SIGN VERSUS IT'S, SAY, CONSTRUCTION BRACKET, BRACKET. SORRY. WHAT WAS WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST QUESTION? CURRENT CODE SECOND PROJECT FROM THE WALL IS THAT I THINK THEY'RE OKAY. YEAH.A NOTE THAT CONCLUDES THE MATERIAL. THE WHOLE. YEAH. SO DO YOU SEE ON THIS SIGN? THERE'S THAT LITTLE BUBBLE, THE BRACKET THAT GOES TO THE BUBBLE OR THE BRACKETS THAT GO TO THE BUILDIN.
RIGHT. IS WHAT YOU'RE ASKING CORRECT? YEAH. I CAN ALSO SEE THIS APPLYING TO POST AND PANEL AND MONUMENT SIGNS, THE ACTUAL KIND OF CONSTRUCTION OF IT. AND THEN THE SIGN ONLY SITS WITHIN IT. BUT ARE THERE LIMITS TO THE ACTUAL. YEAH, WE DID INCLUDE THAT ESPECIALLY FOR LIKE THE BUILDING ENTRANCE SIGNS. YOU DON'T WANT THOSE OUT REALLY FAR FROM THE FACADE. WE DIDN'T INCLUDE THAT IN THE DOCUMENT AS WELL. OKAY. DID YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT MATERIALS. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. SO LET'S STAY HERE ON THIS PROJECTION SIGN. WE WE'VE HAD A COUPLE HISTORICAL UPTOWN NOT PUTTING A PLYWOOD SIGN UP AS THEIR SIGNS REMOVED BECAUSE IT'S EXPANDED AND IT'S JUNK, RIGHT? THEN, YOU KNOW, FIVE MONTHS, I MEAN, IT'S SIGNS DOWN FOR FIVE MONTHS AND YOU GOT A NEW SIGN UP AND IT'S HAPPENED AGAIN. CAN WE HAVE IN OUR SIGN TEXT THAT. THE MATERIAL, THE MATERIAL THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO BE USED ON THESE SIGNS. DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING IN OUR DESIGN GUIDELINES RELATED TO THAT UPTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES? IT'S A LITTLE DATED, BUT WE HAVE SOMETHING IN THERE ON MATERIALS. AND I KNOW THE ARGUMENT IS GOING TO BE IT'S A COST BURDEN TO THE APPLICANT, BUT YOU MIGHT AS WELL DO IT RIGHT IF WE'RE GOING TO DO IT. WE CAN GO BACK AND DIDN'T REALLY REGULATE THE FOR CREATIVITY, BUT CERTAINLY COULD IF IT'S A NUISANCE.
MATERIAL RESISTANT. YEAH, WE SHOULDN'T APPROVE. YEAH. OSB SHOULD NOT BE APPROVED. I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE BIGGER TEETH AND SAYING YOU CAN'T USE OSB WITH VINYL ON TOP OF IT. OKAY.
SPECIFICALLY FOR PROJECTING SIGNS OR FOR OTHER TYPES OF SIGNS. WELL, THE ONES THAT I NOTICED ARE IN UPTOWN BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE I'M AT. AND THEY'RE PROJECTING. YEAH. AND THEY'RE PROJECTING. YEAH. NOW, I DON'T KNOW IF A, LIKE, A MONUMENT SIGN WITH THE. I DON'T NOTICE THOSE.
WHY DON'T WE HAVE A MATERIAL THAT THAT WE OR LIKE PERMITTED MATERIALS. I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S TO PROMOTE CREATIVITY, BUT THEN WOULDN'T IF IT GOES OUTSIDE OF THE REVIEW BOARD OR BCA. YOU MEAN IF WE HAD MATERIAL REQUIREMENTS AND THEY PROPOSED SOMETHING ELSE? YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S I THINK OF ARTICULATING WHAT THE HARDSHIP IS AS TO WHY THEY CAN'T MEET THE CODE FOR. THAT SPECIFIC CODE REQUIREMENT. BUT IF WE PUT IT IN HERE THAT IT HAS TO BE A.
DURABLE, WEATHERPROOF MATERIAL, COULD WE SAY, COULD WE MAKE A RECOMMENDATION OF. LIKE ACRYLIC OR SOMETHING? OKAY. I'M GOING THROUGH THE BULLET POINTS FROM THE. THE STAFF REPORT I TALKED ABOUT PORTABLE SIDEWALK SIGNS REQUIRING PERMIT. I MEAN, WERE WE OKAY WITH THE ONE TIME PERMIT IS PROOF OF THAT. AT ONE TIME. SO THE LIFE OF THAT BUSINESS IN THAT LOCATION. ALL RIGHT. SO THIS NEXT ITEM IS SOMETHING WE HAD TALKED ABOUT AT THE STEERING
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COMMITTEE ON IF WE ALREADY HAVE A SIGN AT A BUSINESS. IT'S AN EXISTING BUSINESS. THERE'S A SIGN THERE. MAYBE A NEW BUSINESS COMES IN. CAN THEY JUST REPLACE THAT SIGN PANEL OR DO THEY NEED TO COME BACK TO DRB? SO THE DISCUSSION WAS THAT IT WOULD JUST BE ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED FOR AN EXISTING SIGN REPLACEMENT. SO THAT'S KIND OF THE WAY WE WERE LEANING TO ALSO MAKE THAT A LITTLE BIT QUICKER AND NOT ALSO NOT BOGGED DOWN. DRB'S AGENDA ITEMS FOR A SIGN PERMIT FOR SOMETHING THAT WAS ALREADY THERE. OKAY. ABSOLUTELY. AWAY FROM ANYWAY. AT THAT POINT I MEAN, THERE IS CONTENT ON THE SIGN, BUT THEY'RE PUTTING UP A NEW SIGN. SO WE'RE NOT REVIEWING THE CONTENT, BUT WE'RE REVIEWING THE MAYBE THE MATERIAL DIMENSIONS. YEAH, IT MAY BE A GRANDFATHERED SIGN THAT DOESN'T CURRENTLY MEET THE CODE. YEAH, IT COULD BE. YEAH. BUT YEAH.YEAH. YEAH. I DON'T SEE ANY DISAGREEMENTS WITH THAT. YEAH. THE ONLY THE NONCONFORMING SIGN WOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE THE SAME PROCESS AS REPLACING A SIGN THAT THAT CURRENTLY CONFORMS TO THE CODE. THE ONLY THING I'M THINKING OF IS THAT THAT REIKI SIGN THAT WE APPROVED A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, WE ADDED IT TO AN EXHIBIT IGNORE ANYTHING AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT SIGN, AND WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY TEETH TO HAVE THEM ADDRESS THE SIGN CODE YOU DON'T REMEMBER? OH, NO, I REMEMBER. I MEAN, THAT'S I GUESS THE QUESTION, RIGHT? I MEAN, IT'S AN EXISTING SIGN. WE'LL DOUBLE CHECK TO IN THIS THAT WE HAVE THE LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENT FOR KIND OF POST AND PANEL MONUMENT SIGNS. WHAT AN ADDITIONAL SIGN TO AN EXISTING SIGN. LIKE THEY JUST ADDED WHAT THAT TWO BY FOUR AT THE BOTTOM BY WOULD THAT COME INTO ADMINISTRATION OR WOULD THAT COME TO US. SO THAT WAS ACTUALLY A PHASE CHANGE. SO THERE WAS A SIGN THERE. THEY WERE REPLACING ANOTHER BUSINESS THAT WAS IN THAT DEVELOP IN THAT. SAME WITH STATE FARM. SO STATE FARM WAS THERE AND THERE'S ANOTHER BUSINESS WITH IT WASN'T ADDING A NEW SIGN TO THAT ONE. IT WAS REPLACING ONE THAT WAS ALREADY THERE WITH YEAH. SO MOVING FORWARD THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DO ADMINISTRATIVELY. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MISSING LANDSCAPE FOR THE CURRENT SIGN CODE? THEN IF WE'RE ADDING A SIGN, WHY WHY COULDN'T WE HOLD THOSE GUYS ACCOUNTABLE TO THE NEW SIGN COD? MOVING FORWARD, WE MAYBE WE COULD. WOULD THERE BE A GRACE PERIOD LIKE AFTER THE SIGN CODE IS SIGNED BY COUNCIL, WOULD THERE BE A GRACE PERIOD OF LIKE TWO YEARS? AND AFTER THAT TWO YEARS, ANY NEW SIGN APPLICATION TO AN EXISTING SIGN WOULD HAVE TO ADJUST OR COME CURRENT. LIKE, LET'S JUST SAY MIKE HAS A MONUMENT SIGN AND SOMEONE BUYS MIKE'S BUT IT'S OUT OF CODE COMPLIANCE CURRENTLY, AS IS AS MIGHT HAVE TO CHANGE THE SIGN TO GET CURRENT TO CODE, BECAUSE IF WE'RE JUST GOING IN FRONT OF IF WE'RE JUST DOING ADMINISTRATION, THEN THE ANSWER IS NO. I THINK IN THE INSTANCE, IF IT'S A MONUMENT SIGN THAT'S AN EXISTING NON-CONFORMING STRUCTURE. SO THE PHASE CHANGE, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WOULD THEY WOULD HAVE TO BRING IT UP TO THE CURRENT CODE.
I THINK THAT'S MOSTLY WITH NEW STRUCTURES, NEW SIGN STRUCTURES WOULD HAVE TO MEET THE CURRENT CODE. I DON'T KNOW IF I'M BEATING A DEAD HORSE OR NOT, BUT I DON'T KNOW. WHAT DO YOU THINK, BUD? I'M BEATING A DEAD HORSE. I MIGHT BE BEATING A DEAD HORSE. I MEAN, I MEAN, BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY'S COMPLYING WITH WHAT WE'RE DOING.
YEAH. SEAN, WHAT DO YOU SEE IN OTHER MUNICIPALITIES HOW FAR DOES THAT EXTEND? RIGHT.
THESE EXTEND TO THE STRUCTURE, MEANING IF YOU DON'T CHANGE THE STRUCTURE ITSELF, YOU CAN CHANGE THE FACE WITHOUT. NOW WHAT WE'VE GOT IN HERE IS A, I BELIEVE, A 50% RULE. IF THEY'RE PERMITTED,
[01:00:09]
THEY'RE THEY'RE DEEMED IF THEY WERE PERMITTED, THEY'RE DEEMED LEGAL NON-CONFORMITIES. AND THEY MAY BE MAINTAINED IF. LET'S SEE HERE. IF LET'S SEE IT SAYS IS THE INTENT OF THE SECTION EVENTUALLY BE BROUGHT INTO COMPLIANCE WITH THE PROVISIONS AND REGULATIONS OF THIS CHAPTER? AS A RESULT, A AND THEREFORE MUST BE BROUGHT INTO CONFORMANCE WITH THIS CHAPTER. IF THE SIGN IS ENLARGED, RELOCATED OF AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT DISCONTINUES OPERATION FOR 30 OR CONSERVATIVE. CONSECUTIVE DAYS OR MORE. OR IF IT'S STRUCTURALLY DAMAGED TO AN EXTENT. GREATER THAN ONE HALF ITS ESTIMATED VALUE. REPLACEMENT VALUE. IT WILL ALSO LOSE ITS LEGAL NONCONFORMING STATUS. SO MOST PLACES WILL DO IT BASED ON TIME.BUT IT'S REALLY, YOU KNOW, IT'S BOTH TIME AND INTENT. INTENT NOT TO REUSE IT. AND THEN FOR SOME PERIOD OF TIME IT'S NOT USED. AND IF IT'S DAMAGED BEYOND A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE BUT TYPICALLY AS LONG AS THE SIGN ITSELF, THE STRUCTURE IS NOT BEING ENLARGED. AND THE STRUCTURE REMAINS IN PLACE. THE SIGN FACE REPLACEMENT IS TYPICALLY YEAH. AND I WAS LEANING THOUGH I WOULD LIKE TO BRING EVERYTHING UP TO. RIGHT. IT'S HARD TO IF IT WAS ALLOWED WHEN IT WAS I KNOW, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I CAN'T DISAGREE. BUT I THINK THAT WAS THE BULLET POINT OF. DOES A NEW SIGN FOR AN EXISTING BUSINESS APARTMENT REQUIRE DRB APPROVAL? SO LEAVE THAT TO ADMINISTRATIVE, AND IF THERE'S SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH CHANGE HERE WHERE YOU'RE ADDING ONE ADDITIONAL IMPACT TO. YES, I THINK THAT COVERS US. THE NEXT ITEM WAS POSTED, THE PANEL SIGN TYPE. WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT WHETHER THAT SHOULD BE ADDED. IN CASE THERE'S LIKE THAT MAKES SENSE TO HAVE THAT TYPE OF SIGN HERE I THINK THOSE ARE SOFTWARE.
YEAH. MAKES SENSE TO ME. I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE. OKAY. AND THEN LATER. FEATHER SIGNS.
YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THE NUMBER PERMITTED. OR IF THERE'S A IF THERE'S A DURATION, A LIMIT ON HOW MUCH TIME IS ABOUT. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT, ZACH. YEAH.
CURRENTLY THAT'S A PROHIBITED SIGN TYPE. BUT AS WITH EVERYTHING ELSE, THINGS CHANGE, TRENDS CHANGE. AND THERE'S A LOT OF BUSINESSES THAT DO USE OR WOULD LIKE TO UTILIZE THAT SIGN TYPE. SO WE WERE LEANING TOWARDS ALLOWING THAT'S THE WACKY WAVING INFLATABLE FLAILING ARM TUBE I GOTCHA. IT'S MORE OF A FABRIC. YEAH, IT'S A IT'S A KITE TYPE.
YEAH. OKAY. SEE, WE WERE LEANING TOWARDS ALLOWING LIKE, A LIMITED NUMBER OF THOSE. YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT TO ENCOURAGE HAVING LIKE TEN OF THEM DOWN THE PROPERTY LINE DOWN ACROSS THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY. BUT, YOU KNOW, 1 OR 2 TO HELP DRAW YOUR ATTENTION, ESPECIALLY TO, YOU KNOW, MULTI-TENANT BUILDINGS THAT ARE SET BACK A LITTLE FARTHER. BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, PUTTING A, A DURATION LIMIT ON WHEN THEY CAN BE INSTALLED, SIMILAR TO OUR OTHER TEMPORARY SIGN OR YARD SIGN REGULATIONS. YOU KNOW, IS IT 90 DAYS? IS IT, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE? THE INTENT WOULD BE FOR TO ADVERTISE FOR SALES OR SPECIALS OR I CAN SEE IT FOR, LIKE A GRAND OPENING OF AN APARTMENT. YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE HAD A LOT OF THOSE SIGNS OUT. AND SO AT THAT POINT WOULD PROHIBIT THEM. THESE ARE USEFUL, BUT TEMPORARILY OR TEMPORARILY. OF COURSE. YEAH, YEAH. FOR THE BALLOON FESTIVAL,
[01:05:02]
THEY SAID. DON'T THEY USE THEM FOR THE BALLOON FESTIVAL? THEY DO ON WEAVER ROAD FOR A WEEK, RIGHT? YEAH, YEAH. I MEAN, I WAS THINKING 30 DAYS BEFORE HE SAID. YEAH, I WAS THINKING 30 AS WELL.I SAID 90 BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE IN FOR SIGN, WHICH IS ANOTHER ONE THAT'S SIMILAR TO THE PORTABLE ONES FOR FESTIVALS AND EVENTS. YEAH. BUT WE ALSO WANT TO HAVE LOCATION FOR LIKE LIMITATIONS FOR THESE. OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T WANT THEM IN THE RIGHT OF WAY RIGHT ALONG THE ROAD. YOU KNOW, IF SOMEBODY FORGETS TO PULL THE STAKE OUT AND THE MOWER HITS THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S GOING TO CAUSE SOME DAMAGE. SO YEAH. SIMILAR NOTE THOUGH. CAN WE ADD IN THE 90 DAYS, IT WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE CONSECUTIVE. AT LEAST THAT'S KIND OF HOW WE RUN THE TEMPORARY SIGN PERMITS NOW. IT WOULD JUST BE 90 DAYS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR TO HAVE IT DISPLAYED.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD WORK THROUGH WITH THE APPLICANTS ON WHEN THOSE ARE POSTED, IT BECOMES AN ISSUE. WE GET COMPLAINTS. HEY, THIS HAS BEEN OUT THERE FOR THREE YEARS.
IT'S STARTING TO FALL APART. THEN WE WOULD ADDRESS IT THROUGH THE MAINTENANCE COMPLAINT. SO IT COULD TECHNICALLY SAY BUSINESS DOES IT ON EVERY SATURDAY FOR THE ENTIRE YEAR. SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I THINK THAT'S ALSO I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW. I FEEL LIKE THAT'S FINE. I MEAN, ONLY 52 DAYS. YEAH. ALMOST GET EVERY WEEKEND. ANY THOUGHTS ON IN MY MIND. I'M SORRY. I'M NOT TRYING TO SPEAK FOR THE BOARD. SO YOU ARE THE CHAIR. LAST ONE TO SAY, NOT IT. YOU'RE RIGHT.
OKAY TEMPORARY BANNERS. WHAT IS CURRENTLY WRITTEN OR WHAT SHOULD WE TALK THROUGH? I THINK THERE'S A TIME AND PLACE FOR IT, BUT AGAIN, OBVIOUSLY TEMPORARY. SO YEAH, I MEAN, WHAT OUR CURRENT CODE IS, IS I THINK IT'S 15 DAYS AT A TIME. AND THEN THEY HAVE TO BE SECURELY ATTACHED TO THE CORNERS IF IT'S ATTACHED TO THE BUILDING OR IF IT'S LIKE IN THE YARD ATTACHED TO STAKES, JUST RESTRICT MOVEMENT, HOLD UP A LITTLE LONGER IF THEY'RE NOT WAVING BACK AND FORTH. BUT I THINK DEPENDING ON THE DISTRICT 20FT■S FOR THE SLOWER, SMALLER ROADS, MORE PEDESTRIAN ORIENTED, ORIENTED 50FT■!S FOR LIKE THE COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS AND THE CIVIC DISTRICTS. BUT I THINK A LONGER, LONGER DURATION WILL PROPOSED FOR THE FEATHER SCIENCE. SO I THINK YOU SAID 15 DAYS AT A TIME. THAT'S HOW OUR CURRENT CODE IS. AND THEN I THINK IT'S FOUR INSTANCES A YEAR IS WHAT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE UNDER THE CURRENT CODE, WHICH CAN BE DIFFICULT TO TRACK FOR SURE. BUT I MEAN, IF IT'S BEEN OUT FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS, I THINK WE REALIZE IT'S BEEN OUT FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS. YEAH, AGAIN, WITH MARYSVILLE'S WIND, I CAN'T IMAGINE IT'S GOING TO LAST MUCH. RESIDENTIAL. LET'S SEE. IT SAYS BANNERS AND RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS ARE EXEMPT FROM A PERMIT GRADUATION BANNERS? YES. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE USING. I'M THINKING OF THAT RIGHT NOW. I HAVE MY SON'S A SOCCER PLAYER AND I'VE HAD HIS SOCCER BANNER UP OVER MY GARAGE ALL YEAR.
YEAH, WE WERE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT. YEAH. ABOUT THAT. TAKE IT DOWN I. SO ANY THOUGHTS ON, YOU KNOW. EXTENDING. SHORTENING UP TO 15 DAYS, FOUR TIMES A YEAR OR DO YOU FEEL THAT'S APPROPRIATE? THE ONLY ONE I WOULD CONSIDER IS A GRAND OPENING. TWO WEEKENDS ISN'T A VERY LONG TIME. THAT'S TRUE. I'D ALMOST WANT TO GIVE THEM THE MONTH, LIKE THE 30 DAYS. I THINK JUST FOR ADDING EXCEPTIONS IS, YOU KNOW, STARTING TO FURTHER COMPLICATE.
I MY THOUGHT WOULD WE CONSIDER LIKE YOU KNOW, THEY ONLY COME IN OCTOBER 1ST ANYWAY, SO THAT'LL BE BUT THOSE WOULD JUST BE. WE'VE HAD A SPIRIT HALLOWEEN, RIGHT? IN YEARS PAST? YEAH. I FORGET WHAT THEY HAD DONE. IT WAS A BANNER FOR SURE. YEAH. YEAH. YEAH. SO YOU'RE. YOU'RE OPPOSED TO 30 DAYS. LETTING 30 DAYS BE
[01:10:09]
THE EXCEPTION THAT WE APPROVE. WELL, I DON'T KNOW. ARE YOU SAYING MAYBE 30 DAYS, TWICE A YEAR? THEN? OR 30 DAYS TWICE A YEAR? TWO MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR FOR A TEN BANNER? I MEAN, A SEMI ANNUAL SALE TWICE A YEAR. WELL, I MEAN, I'M JUST ONE THING. YEAH. I MEAN, I YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO ME. 15 DAYS, FOUR TIMES A YEAR, OR UP TO 30 DAYS TWICE A YEAR. I HOW OFTEN HAVE WE QUESTIONS OR PERMIT PERMITTING.PERMIT APPS. I MEAN, THERE'S ONE ORGANIZATION THAT SUBMITS A PERMIT EVERY TWO MONTHS OR SO.
CAR DEALERSHIP. ONE OF THE LOCAL CHURCHES FOR THEIR PRESCHOOL STUFF OR THANKSGIVING DINNER.
RUMMAGE SALE. YEAH. YEAH. SO THERE'S A HANDFUL OF THOSE THAT STILL COME IN. I MEAN, DO YOU NOW IS THAT CONSIDERED A DIFFERENT SIGN, THOUGH? I MEAN, IF IT'S A THANKSGIVING DINNER AND THEN IT'S A PRESCHOOL APPLICATION. ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. IT'S LIKE SOMEONE WASN'T LISTENING. WELL, BUT MY POINT WAS, IS IT A DIFFERENT BANNER I SUBMITTED FOR THIS BANNER? BANNER. WELL, I MEAN, IF THAT'S HOW YOU WANT TO WRITE IT OUR FEET. NO PERMIT IS REQUIRED.
TO. YEAH. THAT'S A LITTLE. YEAH. IT'S LIKE A YARD SIGN. LARGE YARD SIGNS IN NON RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS REQUIRE A PERMIT. ALL OTHER LARGE YARD SIGNS DO NOT REQUIRE A PERMIT. ALL RIGHT. SO THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION YOU SAID THAT THEY DO COME FOR PERMITS EVERY TWO MONTHS. YEAH.
AND EVEN THOUGH WE CURRENTLY ONLY ALLOW FOUR TIMES A YEAR FOR UP TO 15 DAYS, OR ARE WE. BUT YOU JUST KIND OF JUDGE IT AS LIKE IT'S BEEN A LITTLE FLEXIBLE BECAUSE THAT'S HOW IT WAS DONE BY MY PREDECESSOR. LIKE, SO IF THEY'RE DOING A FIVE DAY STINT, THEN YOU JUST CALLED MAKE IT SIMPLE. I UNDERSTAND FROM AN ENFORCEMENT STANDPOINT, PROBABLY NOT COUNTING THE SOME MAY AFFIRM IT EVERY TIME. AS PART OF THE PERMIT. NUMBER OF DAYS THAT IT WILL BE UP. YEAH. THAT'S THE CANOPY. YEAH. THAT'S INFORMATION WE CURRENTLY REQUIRE FOR THE APPLICATION. BUT TO CIRCLE BACK, IF A BUSINESS WAS HAVING, SAY, A WALL SIGN OR A PROJECTING SIGN AND THEY HAD TWO ON THEIR BUSINESS, WE WOULD EXPECT THEM TO HAVE TWO PERMITS.
IF A PLACE LIKE A CHURCH IS PUTTING OUT A DIFFERENT SIGN, REGARDLESS OF CONTENT, AS LONG AS THEY GOT THAT SIGN RE PERMITTED, THEY COULD THEY COULD DO THEIR PRESCHOOL ENROLLMENT TWICE A YEAR. IF IT'S A DIFFERENT SIGN WITH A DIFFERENT APPLICATION, WE CAN'T LIMIT THAT PROPERTY TO 60 DAYS PROPERTY AT THE SAME TIME, THOUGH, RIGHT? RIGHT. YEAH, I UNDERSTAND, BUT I'M JUST SAYING WE THERE ARE 60 DAYS. AND IF PART OF THE PERMIT IS WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SIGN UP FOR TEN DAYS, THEN IT'S A MATTER OF A DATABASE. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY. THERE'S TEN, 20 PROPERTIES THAT ARE SUBMITTING THESE KINDS OF SIGNS IN THE ENTIRE CITY, BUT PROBABLY FIVE. SO, OKAY, SO KEEPING TRACK OF FIVE DIFFERENT PROPERTIES, YOU KNOW, FOR 2024, THEY HAD TEN PERMITS. THIS WAS FIVE DAYS. THAT WAS SEVEN DAYS. YOU KNOW, I MEAN LIKE YEAH. AND I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE YOUR JOB HARDER. AND WHAT I THINK WHAT WAS DONE IN THE PAST AS WELL TO TRY TO SIMPLIFY IT. IF A, IF A BUSINESS OR AN ORGANIZATION KNEW THAT EVERY THREE MONTHS THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A DIFFERENT EVENT AND HAVE A TEMPORARY SIGN IN THAT SAME LOCATION, SAME DIMENSIONS, THEY WOULD JUST SUBMIT THAT ON ONE PERMIT AND PUT THE DATES, YOU KNOW, APRIL 15TH TO APRIL 30TH AND SO ON COMPLAINTS OR WE NOTICE THAT THEY'VE HAD THAT UP FOR FOUR MONTHS STRAIGHT. I DON'T REALLY GET A VOTE, BUT I WOULD SAY JUST A FLAT NUMBER OF DAYS DISTRIBUTED. HOWEVER, THE PROPERTY OWNER WANTS. YOU'D BE
[01:15:01]
OKAY WITH FLAT NUMBER OF DAYS. OKAY. I WAS JUST GIVING YOU A HARD TIME TOO. I UNDERSTAND. I EXPECT NOTHING LESS. NO, I WAS JUST, YOU KNOW, FURTHER IN THE DEBATE, I. FLAT NUMBER TWO SIGNS WITH DAYS WOULD BE FINE. I THINK YOU'RE OKAY WITH TOTAL OF 60 MEETS THE INTENT. YEAH. YEAH. IS THAT ACROSS ALL THE DIFFERENT. THE FIVE SIGN DISTRICTS. DID ALL FIVE HAVE 15 DAYS? UP TO FOUR TIMES. I THINK THAT THE CURRENT THE CURRENT CODE. THIS DRAFT IS OKAY. THE CURRENT CODE IS 15 DAYS, FOUR TIMES A YEAR. SO IT'S JUST I DON'T KNOW. ARE THERE ANY THAT JUMP OUT TO ANYONE I MEAN RESIDENTIAL? NO, NO, I THINK I THINK IT'S ACROSS THE BOARD.OKAY. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. NOW, HIRING. THAT COULD BE IN ANY DISTRICT. PROBABLY NOT RESIDENTIAL. THAT'D BE WEIRD. HERE'S. ALL RIGHT. CONTINUING ON. PROPOSED SIGN CODE HIGHLIGHTS A NUMBER OF SIGNS PERMITTED. SO UPTOWN, CURRENTLY, THERE ARE TWO SIGN SIGNS PER BUILDING UNIT AND IS PROPOSED TO HAVE FOUR SIGNS PER TURNS. WE DID PROVIDE SOME CHARTS. YEAH, IT'S LIKE THE OPPOSITE OF IT WAS HARD CODED AND ON THE RIGHT LINES, NOT SUPER DETAILED, BUT THE NUMBER SIZE ALLOWED. SO OVERALL, WE WERE TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT EACH DISTRICT AND DETERMINE THAT YOU KNOW, IT'S BETTER FOR MORE SIGNS AND EVALUATE THE QUALITY IN THAT SIZE. SEAN HAD MENTIONED. I GUESS COULD YOU JUST WALK THROUGH THE THINKING OF CHANGING IT FROM SIGNS PER PUBLIC ENTRANCE AND ADDITIONAL.
I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND IT. I'M SURE IT WOULD MAKE SENSE, BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WERE INVOLVED IN THIS CONVERSATION. I DON'T REMEMBER THIS. THIS IS THE REASONING BEHIND THAT. YEAH. SO. LET'S SEE HERE. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAD TALKED ABOUT INTERNALLY WAS WHEN YOU GET TO THE MULTI-TENANT BUILDINGS DOING THAT FOR EACH RELATED TO EACH PUBLIC ENTRANCE SURE HELPS A LITTLE BIT. MAKES SENSE. AND MANAGING THAT ALSO FROM SIGNING PERMITS COMING IN TO MAKES IT MORE PRECISE. AND THEN IN THE UPTOWN, SOME OF THESE BUSINESSES, MOST AT LEAST BEHIND THEM, AT LEAST IN KIND OF THE CORE. SO ALLOWING THAT FOR PUBLIC THAT IS A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO ENFORCE THAN WHAT OUR CURRENT CODE SAYS RIGHT NOW. AS WELL. AND IT ALSO ELIMINATES THE NEED TO OBTAIN A VARIANCE, SPECIFICALLY IN THE UPTOWN. IF YOU HAVE A BUSINESS THAT HAS A PROJECTING SIGN AND A WALL AND A WINDOW SIGN, THEY WANT TO ADVERTISE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE'S A PUBLIC PARKING LOT OUT BACK. THEY WANT TO HAVE SOME ADVERTISING ON THE BACK. HAVING TO SEEK A VARIANCE FOR THAT. YOU KNOW, MAY NOT BE WARRANTED. SO INCREASING THE NUMBER. I THINK KIND OF BE A LITTLE MORE BUSINESS FRIENDLY KIND OF HELP STREAMLINE THINGS, WHICH IS ONE OF THE GOALS OF THE NEW CODE. I MEAN, AS I VIEW IT EASIER. LIKE WE CAN TURN DOWN STUFF BECAUSE IT DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT. WHERE? ZONING, YOU KNOW. SO THIS WOULDN'T LIMIT FOR SIGNS. IF WE JUST FEEL LIKE IT'S TOO MUCH AND TOO MUCH CLUTTER, TOO MANY SIGNS. OVERKILL. YEAH. WHAT DO YOU FEEL
[01:20:02]
OR I DON'T KNOW, A SITUATION, I GUESS. SO IF THEY'RE MEETING THE QUANTITY OF SIGNS. THEY. THEY'RE ALLOWED FOR SIGNS AND THEY HAVE FOUR SIGNS PROPOSED. BUT BARB THINKS IT LOOKS LIKE TOO MUCH.YOU COULD REQUEST THAT THEY REMOVE A SIGN OR TWO. BUT IF THEY SAY NO, WE'RE MEETING THE SIGN CODE, WE CAN SAY NO. BUT WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF GROUND TO COMMISSION REASON, BUT. WELL, AND THERE'S ALSO LIMIT NOT LIMITATIONS BASE AREA PER UNIT AND SIZE OF INDIVIDUAL SIGNS AS WELL. BACK TO LESLIE'S POINT ABOUT HAVING 100 INCH LONG SIGN. SO I THINK ESTHETICALLY THOSE LIMITATIONS ARE GOING TO YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE AS MANY INSTANCES WHERE YOU'RE LIKE, THAT'S TOO MANY SIGNS, BECAUSE WE HAVE SAFEGUARDS FOR THAT. WE ALL WE ALSO ADDED THIS. SO THIS EXHIBIT KIND OF SHOWS IT. SO WE'VE TO HELP WITH SOME OF THAT. WE CAME UP WITH A SIGN SEPARATION. SO IF YOU HAVE A WALL SIGN AND THE MONUMENT SIGN THEY CAN'T BE WITHIN A CERTAIN DISTANCE OF EACH OTHER. SO KIND OF KEEP THE CLUTTER FROM THE SAME ELEVATION.
SO YOU DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, NECESSARILY 2 OR 3 SIGNS ON THE, ON THE FRONT WHEN IT'S NOT REALLY NEEDED. SO WE YEAH, WE FELT LIKE THAT WAS IMPORTANT. YEAH. SOME OF THE DEVELOPMENT DRB AND PLANNING COMMISSION AND WHATNOT. AMNESIA. OKAY. THIS ALLOWS A MIX AND MATCH. PRETTY MUCH. YOU CAN HAVE UP TO X NUMBER OF SIGNS AND THEN, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN TAKE A LOOK THROUGH THE DIFFERENT SIGN TYPES AND SAY, OH, I CAN HAVE ONE OF THESE OR ONE OF THESE. IT'S FAIRLY GENEROUS I WOULD SAY. SIGN SIGN PACKAGE. HERE. YEAH.
I'M NOT SAYING I'M OPPOSED TO THIS CHANGE. I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND IT. I MEAN, THOUGH, I WOULD SAY THAT I, I KIND OF LIKED KICKING IT TO BCA IN THAT BECAUSE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS NOW. IT FEELS LIKE WE'RE KIND OF LIKE OUR SIGN CODE IS TO CATCH ALL THOSE EXCEPTIONS, WHICH LOOSENS IT UP A LITTLE. I THINK IS THE. YEAH, EXACTLY. YEAH I KIND OF LIKE IT TOO MUCH. I'LL JUST SAY THAT HER CURRENT SIGN CODE IS TERRIBLE. OKAY. THAT'S WHY WE ARE ALWAYS KICKING IT, TO BE SURE. SURE. SO I THINK THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A TWO YEAR PROCESS. YEAH. STREAMLINING PROCESSES WITH THE ZONING CODE BACK IN 22, 2020, AS WELL AS THIS WAS ONE OF THE GOALS OF STREAMLINING IT FOR APPLICANTS COMING IN, WHETHER THAT WAS A RESIDENT OR BUSINESS OWNER DEVELOPER. SO JUST TRYING TO HELP THAT PROCESS. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANKS FOR THAT. I KIND OF WANTED TO BRING UP THE PANEL SINCE WE JUST HAD ONE. LAST ONE.
SO CURRENTLY, WHAT OUR DATA IS GOING TO DO IS THE 20FT■!S OF OY FOUR AND THEN IT REALLY WOULD HAVE SHRUNK THOSE SIGNS. BUT AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE AN EXCEPTION WHEN IT'S A MULTI-TENANT, IF WE DO THE 20FTS OR 4FT, IF IT'S ONLY A SINGLE TENANT, MULTI-TENANT, MAYBE, MAYBE DO A LITTLE MORE. I DON'T KNOW. I THINK IT'S A GOOD SUGGESTION. YEAH. OKAY THE FIRST PANEL IS INTENDED TO BE A SMALLER, MORE PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY, FOCUSED SIGN. SO WE'VE GOT IN HERE. WHAT? 30 OR 20? THAT'S FOUR FEET BY FIVE FEET.
IT'S A PRETTY BIG SIGN. 30FT, SIX BY FIVE IS THIS IS HANGING FROM A. IT'S GOING TO BE PRETTY SIZABLE. THAT'S ACTUALLY ONE OF THE LARGER POST AND PANEL SIGNS I'VE DONE. USUALLY THEY'RE ABOUT 12. SO SOMETIMES WE WE HAVE THAT IN THE UPTOWN WHERE IT'S ONE POST, AND THEN THE SIGN IS HANGING OFF TO THE SIDES, THERE'S TWO POSTS AND SIGNAGE IN THE MIDDLE, AND THAT'S WHERE SOME OF THOSE SIGNS GET A LITTLE BIT. THEY GET BIGGER. YEAH. SO MAYBE WE NEED TO CLARIFY THAT IF THERE'S ONE POST VERSUS TWO POSTS, MAYBE THERE'S A DIFFERENT SIZE REQUIREMENT. THAT'S A GOOD
[01:25:04]
IDEA. YEAH. AND THEN WELL IS THAT. YEAH. WHAT IS THAT SIGN. IS THAT MORE OF A. IS THAT MORE OF A. WELL I GUESS IT'S POSTED. IT'S NOT A MONUMENT. WE TALKED ABOUT THAT. YEAH. YOU CALL IT A MONUMENT OR NOT. BUT I THINK THE DECISION WAS IT'S STILL POSTED. SO POST AND PANEL. TWO POSTS VERSUS ONE POST. THAT MAKES SENSE BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE THERE. YEAH THAT THAT'S PROBABLY 46 WEST MAIN. WHAT'S UP? I'M SORRY. THAT'S PROBABLY AT LEAST YOU HAVE THAT VISION THAT WE HAVE. THAT WAS AN APPLICATION. SO WE CAN GO BACK AND MAYBE LOOK AT SOME PAST APPLICATIONS. MORE RECENTLY AND SEE AND WE CAN COMPARE THOSE SQUARE FOOTAGE. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. YEAH. BUT WHEN IT'S ONE PERSON, ONE POST. YEAH. IT'S LIKE THAT OTHER ONE. IT'S USUALLY DAINTIER. IF YOU WILL. SURE. LIKE A SIXTH ANCHOR. MAYBE WE'LL CONSIDER THE HEIGHT OF A ONE HORSE VERSUS THE TWO POSTS OF ONE. AND THERE'S, THERE'S ONE THAT'S FAIRLY. IT'S HARD TO SEE.THIS IS THE ONE THAT JUST WENT THROUGH. THAT'S A BIG WE'VE GONE BACK AND FORTH ON THAT WHAT'S ON THE SIGN? HOW BIG IS THAT FACE? OH 38 BY 36 OR 4 BY THREE. LIKE ON A SIGN LIKE THIS, WE USUALLY DON'T SEE THE HOUSE NUMBER ON THE SIGN. ON THE SIGN.
IT LOOKS BIGGER. CAN WE GO TO ONE OF THEM? YES. 246 WEST FIFTH. 246 I THINK IT'S THE ONE WE LOOKED AT. IT'S THE ONE THAT WE JUST DID. YEAH, THE ONE THAT WE JUST. OH, THE ONE THAT'S THE ONE WITH THE. IT HAS THE ADDRESS ON IT AND. YEAH. WE KIND OF QUESTIONED WHETHER WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON IT. TYPICALLY I MEAN BUT IT WAS I THINK THAT ONE WAS JUST A I THINK THAT FOR THAT TO ADD THAT ON THERE. YEAH. THAT'S THE ONE THING I'D LOVE TO SEE IS BIGGER NUMBERS SO YOU CAN FIND THE PLACE. WE DON'T HAVE I DON'T THINK. YEAH. WE DON'T HAVE A MAXIMUM HEIGHT FOR ADDRESS.
THAT'S THE ONE I SHOWED THAT IS REPLACING THIS ONE, I THINK. I THINK WE DISCUSSED ABOUT THE STREET THAT'S PRETTY TALL THE OTHER. SO THIS WOULD REDUCE IT DOWN TO 6 OR 4FT. FOUR FEET.
NOW THAT'S A TINY LITTLE SIDE. SIX IS COMFORTABLE I THINK. THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.
MAYBE SIX. YEAH. RIGHT. YEAH. IT'S A. ALL RIGHT. I'M SORRY. I'M JUST GOING TO MOVE ON TO CONSIDERING REMOVAL OF EXPOSED NEON SIGNS. I MEAN, WE TOUCHED ON IT. I THINK WE KIND OF TOUCHED ON MOST OF THESE. JEFF MENTIONED THE SIGN SEPARATION, AND SHAWN HAD TALKED ABOUT THAT.
NONCONFORMING SIGN THAT'S ADDRESSED ON PAGE 47 OF THE DOCUMENT.
THEY CONDUCTED THEIR DESIGN REVIEW BOARD. WE NEVER REALLY HAD ANY INFORMATION ON THOSE AND JUST RELATED TO SIZE AND SERIALS, AND THAT MIGHT HELP. DESIGN REVIEW BOARD A LITTLE BIT. OKAY. WELL, YEAH, I THINK WE'VE TOUCHED ON EVERYTHING IN THE REPORT. IF I MISSED SOMETHING. SO ANY OTHER ITEMS COME TO MIND AS YOU HAVE A CLARIFICATION OF RESIDENTIAL MIXED USE? TWICE. I'M JUST USING THIS AS A CHEAT SHEET. YEAH. THAT WAS THAT'S MY BAD. WHEN I MADE I MADE ONE CHART AND THEN JUST COPY PASTED IT AND CHANGED THE INFORMATION. I JUST MISSED REMOVING THAT REVIEW. SO JUST JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, I'M GUESSING IT'S NOT. IT'S NOT WITH THE MI AND. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT I FIGURED. SORRY ABOUT THAT. THANK YOU. NO WORRIES. YEAH I GOT I GOT ONE QUESTION. THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION REGARDING THE SIZE THING DID THAT. WHERE DID THAT LAND? I THINK WE ALL THAT'S WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED, AND THAT'S WHAT WE CURRENTLY USE. OKAY. ARE YOU THINKING OF YOU'RE THINKING LIKE, YEAH. WHERE YOU'RE YOU'VE GOT A SET
[01:30:04]
BACK. YEAH. YOU'VE GOT A LONGER BUILDING. THEY SHOULD POTENTIALLY BE ALLOWED TO. BUT THAT'S THAT'S FOR THE TOTAL NOT THE INDIVIDUAL SIGNS. SO IT'S 40FT■!S FOR AN INDIVIDUAL SIGN.AND THEN MAXIMUM SIGN FACE AREA FOR THE WHOLE BUILDING. ELEVATION IS 1.2 TIMES THE WIDTH OF THE BUILDING. OKAY. IT DOES SAY HERE THAT IN THE FOOTNOTE MAXIMUM SIGN SURFACE AREA MAY BE INCREASED UPON ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUSTMENT. THAT'S RIGHT. SO FOR LIKE THE ESE BUILDING WE HAVE A ACCOMMODATE SOME OF THOSE LARGER SIGNS WITHOUT A VARIANCE. SO THAT'S WHERE WE ADDED THAT FOOTNOTE IN ON THE ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUSTMENT SEAN. DO WE NEED LIKE A IS THAT JUST STAFF PUTTING IN THEIR STAFF REPORT TO DRB TO SAY THIS CAN BE APPROVED IN DRB BENEFICIARY SAYS AN ADDITIONAL FORM. I DON'T KNOW. YEAH. SOMETHING EXTRA TO GO WITH IT. WITH THAT KIND OF REWARD, I THINK IT WAS INTENDED TO BE TRULY ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL. I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT INTERFACES WITH THE DRB. YEAH, BUT YOU KNOW, IT MAY BE IT'S A THRESHOLD OR A TOLERANCE. YOU KNOW, THE STAFF CAN GO UP TO 10% OR 20%, AND THEN EVERYTHING ELSE HAS TO GO TO DRB YOU WANT TO BE CHANGES, RIGHT? LIKE REAL TIME. OH MY GOSH. I NEED AN EXTRA THREE INCHES AND NOT HAVE TO GO TO THE DRB FOR THAT. THAT KIND OF THING. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE BOARD? THE ONLY OTHER SIGN PROBLEM THAT WE RAN INTO IS SOMEONE HANGING SIGNS PRIOR TO APPROVAL. IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE CODE LANGUAGE FOR THAT? YEAH, THAT'S GOING TO BE YOUR YOUR VIOLATION AND ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION AND PROCEDURES. SAME WAY WE HAVE IT NOW. YEAH. AND I, I, WE FELT KIND OF PRESSURED AS WELL. I FELT KIND OF PRESSURED TO APPROVE IT SINCE IT WAS ALREADY UP. WE'RE SPEAKING OF COOKS, AND I'M SPEAKING OF SCOTT'S SECOND. YEA, MAYBE AS A I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, CHAD. I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. RIGHT? I'M HISTORIC IN NATURE, BUT WE'RE NOT THE ONE TO DEFINE WHETHER IT'S A STORY. I MEAN, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE WANT ON THE EDGE OF IT, RIGHT? I MEAN, IT'S HISTORICALLY IT WAS FROM THE 70S. IS THAT. I MEAN, I'M I'M HISTORIC. I'M SORRY. IT'S ONE ONE PERSON. YEAH. IT'S JUST SO THEY DID. SO YOU GUYS DID CAPTURE THIS. BUT IN ORDER TO GET TO HERE, WE IN THE PAST, THEY COULD DO AN APPEAL. YES. SO YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO APPROVE IT. YOU KNOW THAT THEY COULD APPEAL YOUR DECISION TO BCA, BUT YOU KNOW. OKAY. SEEING NO OTHER COMMENTS FROM STAFF, ARE THERE ANY CITIZENS WISHING TO SPEAK ON THIS SUBJECT? IT'S YOUR TIME. PLEASE GO TO THE PODIUM. YOU HAVE UP TO FIVE MINUTES. THIS IS GENERALLY NOT A BACK AND FORTH, BUT BECAUSE OF THE LIMITED NUMBER OF PEOPLE, MAYBE WE YOU FOR GIVING ME THE INFORMATION FOR MY BUSINESS. THE NEW CODE WILL WORK JUST FINE. I WAS GOING TO COME AND TELL YOU THAT THE SPEED OF THE ROAD MAKES A DIFFERENCE ON HOW BIG THE LETTERS NEED TO BE. BECAUSE WHAT YOU CAN SEE AT 25 MILES AN HOUR IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU CAN SEE AT 35 MILES AN HOUR. BUT THEY'VE INCREASED IT. SO EVEN AT 35 MILES AN HOUR, I'VE GOT TO REPLACE MY SIGN ON ACCOUNT BUT ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT HAS COME UP WITH THE UNION COUNTY FOUNDATION PURCHASING THE SCOTT HOUSE PERMITTED UNDER THE OLD SIGN UNDER VILLAGE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT, BUT UNDER THE NEW
[01:35:04]
CODES IT WILL NOT BE PERMITTED. WE'LL BE DOING A CHANGE OF USE EVENTUALLY. IT'LL TAKE US A FEW YEARS TO GET IT CONVERTED OVER TO THE FOUNDATION OFFICE, BUT FOR A NONPROFIT USE IN VILLAGE RESIDENTIAL, THE OLD CODE DID ALLOW MONUMENT SIGN TO GO UP. THAT SAID, UNION COUNTY FOUNDATION. BUT THIS PROPOSED CODE WOULD NOT. LET'S SEE. IT WOULD ALLOW MUCH SMALLER. AND IT'S ANGEL VILLAGE RESIDENTIAL AND AGRICULTURAL. IT'S PRETTY MUCH WRITTEN FOR SUBDIVISIONS, SO I WOULD TRY TO EXPAND THE DEFINITION OF MONUMENT SIGN USES TO COVER ALSO THE AGRICULTURAL AND SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL, WHERE YOU DO HAVE THE OPTION FOR NONPROFITS AND IT DOES ADDRESS A SCHOOL, BUT IT SEEMS WITH THE BIG CHANGE FROM WHAT WAS AND WHAT IS GOING TO HOPEFULLY THAT SAYS THE SAME THING. I'M LOOKING AT. I THINK THE CODE IS WRITTEN MORE FOR SUBDIVISION ENTRANCE SIGNS. YOU DON'T TYPICALLY HAVE A LOT OF BUSINESSES IN THE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS, SO WHO'S COUNTING FOR THAT? BUT IN AGRICULTURE AND THE SINDH, ESPECIALLY AGRICULTURE. THEY ARE AN ENCOURAGING SMALL AGRICULTURE BUSINESSES. SO I JUST THINK THE CODE NEEDS TO ADDRESS THAT JUST SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THESE VARIANCES THAT THEY'RE HAVING TO GO FOR BECAUSE IT ISN'T ADDRESSING. YOU'VE LUMPED THREE DIFFERENT ZONING TYPES ALL TOGETHER. SO MAYBE SHOULD BE A LITTLE BROADER. WAS IT. WELL THANK YOU FOR THE FEEDBACK. APPRECIATE IT. THANKS, KATHY. ANY COMMENTS OKAY. THANK YOU PEANUT GALLERY WE ARE NOT VOTING. TONIGHT WAS REALLY JUST INFORMATIONAL AND FEEDBACK. CORRECT. AND WE'LL TAKE ALL OF THESE COMMENTS AND WE CAN WORK WITH SEAN TO UPDATE THE CODE. AND THEN WE CAN COME BACK TOWARDS THE END OF DECEMBER. RIGHT NOW OKAY. ANY DISCUSSION ITEMS AT THIS POINT? I THINK WE DISCUSSED EVERYTHING. ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO SKIP THE DESIGN REVIEW BOARD LIAISON REPORT. THAT WILL BE NEXT WEEK. COMMENTS FROM INDIVIDUAL BOARD MEMBERS. MISS RAWLINSON? I HAVE NONE. MR. FISHER. NO COMMENT, MR. STEIN. NOT AT THIS TIME, SIR. MISS. NO COMMENT. AND I JUST THANK YOU FOR. IT WAS A GOOD DISCUSSION. TRY NOT TO DRAW IT OUT TOO LONG, BUT IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. SO THANK YOU EVERYONE. AND WITH THAT, WE HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.