Feb 04, 2025 Planning Commission

GOOD EVENING, GOOD EVENING. I'D LIKE TO CALL IT IS TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 4TH, 2025 AT 631. I'D

[00:00:13]

[APPROVAL OF MINUTES]

ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. I OPPOSE THE SAME. ALL RIGHT. SO THE PART THAT I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO GET TO SKIP AND MAYBE STILL CAN. SWEARING IN OF CITIZENS AND APPLICANTS. ALL APPLICANTS WISHING, SPEAKING BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION. IF YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO TALK AT ANY POINT TONIGHT. ALL RIGHT. NORMALLY WE WOULD ASK YOU TO STAND UP, RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.

I READ A PLEDGE, BUT NO PLANS ON SPEAKING. OKAY. AND JUST FOR EDUCATION PURPOSES, THAT WOULD ALSO BE IF YOU JUST HAD SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO SHARE WITH THE COMMISSION, EVEN IF IT WASN'T SOMETHING ON THE AGENDA. YES. AS IN THIS POINT, RIGHT HERE IS CITIZEN COMMENTS. SO IF THERE WAS ANY CITIZENS WISHING TO SPEAK ON A NON AGENDA ITEM, WE GIVE THEM UP TO FIVE MINUTES TO SPEAK. BUT AS NO ONE IS WISHING TO, WE WILL MOVE ON TO REPORT OF THE ADMINISTRATION.

YOU GET BONUS POINTS BY SPEAKING, I'M SURE. TOO LATE. WE HAVE NOTHING AT THIS TIME.

SORRY. ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. THE FIRST AND ONLY ITEM ON THE NEW BUSINESS IS TO HEAR AN

[1. To hear an application for a Zoning Code Amendment to Part Eleven - Zoning Code, Section 1129 – Signs and Appendix – Glossary of Terms. ]

OCCUPANCY. IT WOULD BE A SEPARATE PERMIT JUST BECAUSE SOMETIMES A BUSINESS GOES IN AND THEN MAYBE TWO YEARS LATER THEY'RE GOING TO GET A THEY WANT A SIDEWALK SIGN. SO IT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN SIMULTANEOUSLY. YEAH. OKAY. WHAT'S THE FEE INVOLVED? 50 BUCKS. 50 BUCKS.

OKAY. AND THEN JUST LIKE A STATEMENT THAT THEY'RE GOING TO NOT THEY'RE GOING TO PLACE IT IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T OBSTRUCT PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC. I GUESS MY, MY AND I THINK I BROUGHT THIS COMMENT UP THE LAST TIME WAS MAKING IT AS WELL KNOWN AS POSSIBLE. THAT WAS WHY LIKE IF THEY WERE APPLYING FOR OCCUPANCY, IF THERE WAS EVEN JUST A CHECKLIST OF AND DON'T FORGET YOUR SIDEWALK PERMIT. OH, LIKE IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A SIDEWALK SIGN. YEAH, I WOULD HATE FOR A BUSINESS TO BE THREE YEARS IN AND DECIDE NOW THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A SIDEWALK AND IT'S THREE YEARS LATER. I DON'T REMEMBER THAT I WAS SUPPOSED TO DO THIS. I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T WANT TO SET PEOPLE UP FOR FAILURE. YEAH. NO, I THINK THAT'S THAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD WORK THROUGH WITH STAFF. AS FAR AS MAYBE IT'S A PAMPHLET, Q&A OR TOURISM OR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

WE EVEN HAVE. AND OF COURSE, AS A MAIN STREET REPRESENTATIVE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE WORKING ON MAKING SURE THAT AT LEAST OUR UPTOWN BUSINESSES HAVE RESOURCES LIKE THAT, LIKE A CHECKLIST SORT. ARE WE? I JUST NEED A REMINDER. ARE WE ONLY LIMITING THEM TO ONE SIGN? ONE SIDEWALK

[00:05:07]

THE 11,905. AND THEN AGAIN WITH THE. THERE WERE SOME CONCERNS WITH PROJECTING SIGNS BEING ATTACHED TO OLDER BUILDINGS IN THE UPTOWN, MAKING SURE THAT THOSE CONNECTION POINTS ARE IN THE MORTAR JOINTS AND NOT THE ACTUAL BRICK. JUST SOME MORE PROVISIONS FOR THE PROJECTING SIGNS. THERE'S THERE'LL BE A MAXIMUM PROJECTION FROM THE BUILDING FACADE, WHICH WILL INCLUDE THE MOUNTING HARDWARE AT FIVE FEET. AND THEN WE'VE ADDED IN AGAIN TO THE MEASUREMENT STANDARDS AND MATERIALS SECTION AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CHAPTER THAT ALL SIGNS HAVE TO BE DURABLE, WEATHERPROOF MATERIALS NOT PRONE TO FADING OR CRACKING TO TRY TO INCREASE THE BUILDING MATERIALS QUALITY. POSTED SIGNS. I THINK THERE WERE SOME COMMENTS AND. INPUT FROM THE COMMISSION.

WE'VE CHANGED IT TO FOR A SINGLE POST THAT THE EIGHT FOOT IS THE IS THE HIGHEST IT CAN BE. IF THERE'S A DOUBLE POST, IT'S SIX. KIND OF STANDARDIZED THE MAXIMUM SIZE FOR THOSE SIGNS. AND THAT'S KIND OF BASED ON IF IT'S 1 OR 2 SIGN PANELS ON ON THE SIGN STRUCTURE. THOSE WILL BE ADDED TO THE COMPREHENSIVE SIGN TABLE. AND THEN WE DID WE ADDED IN THE LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENT. THE WORDING WAS A LITTLE UNCLEAR. SO I THINK THE WAY THAT IT'S WORDED NOW WOULD JUST BE THAT BOTTOM PICTURE WHERE IT'S TWO FEET FROM EVERY SIDE OF THE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE SIGNPOST CONNECTS TO THE GROUND. IDEALLY, THAT AREA BETWEEN THOSE TWO POSTS WOULD BE LANDSCAPED AS WELL. SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE WANT TO DISCUSS WITH YOU GUYS TONIGHT. IF THAT'S SOMETHING YOU WOULD WANT TO BE CHANGED IN THE PROPOSED TEXT. COULD WE DO SOMETHING SIMILAR TO, YOU KNOW, DESIGN STANDARDS AND SAY SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF TWO LANDSCAPE STANDARDS MUST BE USED, LIKE MULCHED POSTS AND FLOWERS OR MULCH POSTS AND BUSH OR FLOWERS AND BUSH, YOU KNOW, JUST KIND OF WOULD THAT HELP TO LANDSCAPING FEATURES? I MEAN, I THINK THAT COULD BE BENEFICIAL. I THINK WE WERE LOOKING AT MORE AT LIKE, WHAT DOES THE LANGUAGE SAY SO THAT IT'S, YOU KNOW, A TWO FOOT IN EVERY DIRECTION FROM THE SIGN, BUT ALSO INCLUDING LIKE THE PANEL ABOVE GROUND. SO IT'S NOT JUST WHERE IT CONNECTS TO THE GROUND THAT LIKE UNDERNEATH. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT CONNECT THE TWO POINTS UNDERNEATH EAGLE POINT? I THINK THERE'S I MEAN WE HAVE THAT EXPLAINED FURTHER IN THE NEXT SLIDE. COULD WE HOLD OFF ON THE NEXT SLIDE? EIGHT INCH FOR A SINGLE POST. SIX INCH FOR A DOUBLE POST. FEET. NO, SIX FEET. SORRY. EIGHT FEET. I'M SORRY. I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO MINIMIZE IF THERE'S GOING TO BE A SINGLE SIGN THAT WE'RE GOING TO BRING THE SINGLE SIGN DOWN, AND IT WAS A DOUBLE SIGN ON THE SINGLE POST, WE COULD HAVE IT EIGHT FEET. DIDN'T WE NOT? THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. BUT I THINK JEFF HAD I THINK JEFF AND I INTERPRETED THE OTHER WAY BECAUSE WE HAD WE WERE AFRAID WHEN YOU HAD IF YOU HAD TWO POSTS AND YOU HAD A REALLY TALL SIGN THAT VISIBILITY IS IT'S GOING TO ENCROACH ON SOME VISIBILITY. BUT ALLOWING THAT.

SO OUR REFERENCE WAS OUT HERE WITH JUDGE PARROT. HE HAS A SINGLE POST. AND I THINK JEFF, WHAT WAS HIS HIS HEIGHT IS LIKE, YEAH EIGHT FOOT. I FOLLOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS A SINGLE POST WITH TWO SIGNS ATTACHED TO IT. YEAH. WHY WOULDN'T WE LOWER THE SINGLE POST WITH ONE SIGN? SO YOU ALLOW EIGHT FEET FOR A SINGLE POST WITH TWO SIGNS, BUT A SINGLE POST WITH ONE SIGN HAS TO BE SIX FOOT. I THOUGHT WE DISCUSSED. NO, NO, A DOUBLE POST, RIGHT? HE'S TALKING ABOUT TWO SITUATIONS OF A SINGLE POST. SO WE HAVE. WE JUST RECENTLY APPROVED A SIGN POST WITH TWO SIGNS ATTACHED TO A SINGLE OKAY, WHICH WAS EIGHT FEET. OKAY. WHY WOULDN'T WE NOW FOR ONE SINGLE POST WITH ONE SINGLE SIGN? LIKE, WHY IS IT EIGHT FEET? WHY? WHY

[00:10:06]

JUDGE. PARROTS. NO, NO. DOWN THE ROAD. THE ONE NEXT TO STATE FARM. YEAH. THAT ONE'S BEEN UPDATED. YEAH, THAT'S THE ONE THAT WENT TO THE SAME. THAT'S NO LONGER THERE. THAT. THAT'S NOT A SIGN ANYMORE. RIGHT, RIGHT. THAT'S THE ONE THAT WE JUST APPROVED. YEAH. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT HEIGHT IS AT ALL? I DON'T KNOW IF THEY SUBMITTED THAT ON, BUT. YEAH. THAT LOOKS LIKE. I FEEL LIKE I REMEMBER HAVING A CONVERSATION. IT WASN'T JUST IN YOUR HEAD. NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT. YEAH. THE TWO SIGN LONG POSTS. I DON'T THINK WE DISCUSSED IT AT ALL. OKAY.

BECAUSE WE TALKED ABOUT RIGHT OF WAY SIGN, SITE CLEARANCE. AND. SURE. I'M ALSO JUST SAYING, I MEAN, IN THAT CASE, THERE WAS 2 OR 3 SIGNS ON THAT ONE. BUT LET'S SAY IT IS A LONGER BUILDING THAT MAYBE HAS SIX TENANTS, RIGHT? IF WE LOOK AT TO SIX FEET, I MEAN, WOULD IT BE A SIGN THAT IT'S EIGHT FEET? WELL, THAT'S EIGHT FEET. THERE'S NO THAT'S EIGHT. WELL TO THE YEAH.

TO THE TOP OF THE POST. I WENT OUT AND MEASURED THIS. AND THE ONE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD PROVE IT. I DID IT FOR OUR LAST SIGN THAT WAS ON FIFTH STREET BECAUSE WE WERE TRYING TO COMPARE. SO PAPA JOHN'S IS WHEN WE DISCUSSED THE LONGER SIGN. OKAY. RIGHT. AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT OF WAY. THERE IS. DO YOU THINK WE NEED. IT NEEDS TO BE EIGHT FOOT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT. I'M SORRY. I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT WE DISCUSSED, RIGHT? WE DID DISCUSS IT. YEAH, THAT'S AN EIGHT FOOT. NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE LONG BANNER SIGNS OR TWO POSTS. WE'RE JUST KIND OF TALKING ABOUT ALL OF THEM. BOTH OF THEM INTERCHANGEABLY. THAT'S. THAT'S DEFINITELY OVER EIGHT FEET. BECAUSE LOOK AT THAT CAR. OKAY. IT LOOKS LIKE EIGHT FEET FROM THIS ANGLE. IT IS. IT'S A LITTLE BIT TALLER THAN EIGHT FEET, ACTUALLY. YEAH. I DON'T FEEL STRONGLY. I JUST WAS TRYING TO RECALL WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT LAST TIME. THAT'S TECHNICALLY A DIFFERENT SIZE. OKAY. SO WE ARE AGAINST AN EIGHT FOOT. IF IT'S NOT, IF IT'S A DOUBLE SIGN HANGING LIKE THAT, WE'RE AGAINST AN EIGHT. I, I AGREE I AGREE, BUT IT CAN BE EIGHT FOOT IF THERE'S TWO SIGNS FOR A SINGLE

[00:15:08]

YOU JUST. I'M JUST SAYING IF YOU WANT THAT DECORATIVE POST TO HAVE THAT GAP, IF THAT'S EIGHT FEET. BUT THE SIGN CAN'T BE ABOVE SIX FEET ON THAT POST. I DON'T KNOW. I'M BACK TO I THINK IT'S FINE. IT'S FINE. DO YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING? WHERE, LIKE JEFF, YOU JUST MENTIONED THIS. WHERE IT'S MOUNTED AT SIX. LIKE IT'S AN EIGHT FOOT TALL POST, BUT MOUNTED NO HIGHER THAN SIX FEET. YOU SHOW ME WHAT YOU'RE SAYING SO THAT YOU GET SOME OF THAT DECORATIVE AT THE TOP. IF WE HAVE, WE HAVE CODE REQUIREMENTS FOR SQUARE FOOTAGE OR MAXIMUM SQUARE. MORE THAN TWO PANELS. YOU GET 30FT■!S MAX COMBINED WITH THAT. IS THAT FOR A SINGLE POST SIGN? THAT'S FOR.

THAT'S FOR A SINGLE OR DOUBLE POST? YEAH. YEAH, THAT'S A BIG SIGN FOR A SINGLE POST. WELL, I MEAN, YOU CAN'T FIT IT. YOU CAN'T FIT IT. THAT'S JUST WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I MEAN, THAT THAT EXAMPLE UP THERE IS A GOOD REFERENCE. THAT'S PROBABLY PRETTY CLOSE TO THREE BY FOUR.

YEAH. HOW TALL IS THAT SIGN? THAT'S A FOUR FOOT SIGN. THAT'S A SEVEN FOOT POST. YEAH. YEAH.

THAT'S THAT'S FROM THE GOOGLE. SO I GO BACK TO, TO ASHLEY'S COMMENT. I, I LIKE THE IDEA OF BUT IT CAN'T BE MOUNTED HIGHER THAN SIX FEET. SO MAYBE WE ALLOW EIGHT FOOT SINGLE POST. BUT THE SIGN HAS TO BE MOUNTED NO HIGHER THAN SIX FEET BECAUSE THAT'S TRUE. I MEAN IT HAS A TWO FOOT TOP OR IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S IN THE WAY, RIGHT? I'M NOT THAT. I MEAN, I DIDN'T EXPECT TO SPEND TEN MINUTES ON THIS WHOLE TIME. THEY'RE THEY'RE JUST REAL PASSIONATE ABOUT IT. THERE FOR A SECOND. WE'RE GETTING A FLASHLIGHT. WE'RE GETTING THE SIGNS. YEAH. NO, THAT'S WHO SUBMITTED A SIGN. BUT IT WAS NOT A. CEILING MOUNTED SIGN ON THE ROOF. THAT'S FOUR BY THREE. AND THAT WASN'T FAST ENOUGH. THAT WAS SOMETHING. HE'S GOING TO PULL OUT IN THE NEXT. JUST JUST FOR REFERENCE, THIS. YEAH, THAT'S THE ONE I WAS THINKING OF. THAT WAS FOUR BY THREE. IS THIS TOP SIGN IS FOUR BY THREE. AND THEN THE BOTTOM ONE IS SMALLER. THREE EIGHT BY TWO SIX AND THEN 44 BY 24. DID THEY END UP ADDING THE ADDRESS ON THE TOP LIKE WE SUGGESTED? I DON'T BELIEVE SO BECAUSE I DON'T THAT WASN'T I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WAS A CONDITION THAT WAS PUT ON. SO THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO. BUT NO, THEY BUT THEY DID THE DECORATIVE STUFF AND MADE THE POLES OR THE, THE POLE WIDER, THE POST WIDER. AND THEN THEY'LL HAVE THE, THEY'LL HAVE THE LANDSCAPING ONCE THEY GET WARMER. I BELIEVE YOU CAN PUT CAMERAS ON HOW BIG THE POST CAN BE AS FAR AS. LIKE A I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S WHERE ALL THE. I MEAN THIS WAS 4X4 AND THEN DESIGN REVIEW BOARD WANTED IT BIGGER. I WANTED IT SIX BY SIX. SO I THINK OUR DEFINITIONS OF THE DIFFERENT SIGN TYPES, LIKE DIFFERENT GROUND MOUNTED SOUND TYPE SIGN TYPES, WOULD ADDRESS THAT CONCERN. I THINK IF IT'S OVER A CERTAIN SIZE, IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A MONUMENT VERSUS A PERSON PANEL. OKAY.

BECAUSE SHE SAID IT COST MORE MONEY SO THEY WON'T DO IT. AND WE DON'T STATE ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN PUT PARTICULAR LANGUAGE ON THE POST ITSELF, WHETHER IT'S AN ADDRESS OR ANY ADDITIONAL

[00:20:04]

TEMPORARY BANNER SIGNS. SO CURRENTLY, THE SIGNS IN THE TOP IMAGE ARE PROHIBITED. THE NEW CODE WILL PERMIT THOSE AS A TEMPORARY SIGN TYPE AND BE SUBJECT TO THAT 90 DAY DISPLAY PERIOD. SO WE'VE ADDED TEMPORARY BANNER DESCRIPTION IN THE TABLE AND OR THE DURATION HAS BEEN ADDED TO THE TEMPORARY SIGN. DESCRIPTION OF THE TABLE. AND WE'VE MADE IT CONSISTENT FOR ALL DISTRICTS AND ALL THE TEMPORARY SIGN TYPES TO BE THE 90 DAYS. AND AGAIN, FOR THE SPECIAL EVENTS PERMITS THAT'S GOING TO BE ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW THING. AND I DON'T ANTICIPATE THERE BEING A LOT OF SIGNAGE WITH THOSE. BUT THAT'S JUST A PROCESS WE'LL BE ABLE TO WORK THROUGH.

GO AHEAD. I LIKE ALL THIS. I'VE GOT NO CONCERNS HERE. IN REGARDS TO THE FEATHER BLADE SIGNS, IT'S COME UP A COUPLE OF TIMES IN SOME UPTOWN CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HAVING. PERMANENT HOLES IN THE SIDEWALK. I FEEL LIKE THAT'S NOT IN THE SPIRIT OF HAVING A TEMPORARY BANNER, BUT IT WOULD LOOK MUCH CLEANER THAN THOSE BIG WEIGHTED OR INFLATABLE OR WHATEVER THEY USE AS A BASE.

OBVIOUSLY, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD GET WRAPPED UP IN SIGN CODE, BUT I GUESS I'M JUST BUGGING THE EAR OF CITY STAFF. BE MORE OF A PUBLIC SERVICE OR ENGINEERING ITEM. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OUR PUBLIC SERVICE STAFF WOULD APPRECIATE A BUNCH OF HOLES IN THE SIDEWALK ALL THROUGH THE UPTOWN SO COMPLETELY. IDEALLY, I THINK THEY HAVE LIKE LITTLE LIKE LIKE MANHOLE COVERS. BUT IT'S JUST HAVING A PERMANENT HOLE FOR A TEMPORARY SIGN DOES NOT FEEL LIKE THE SPIRIT YOU KNOW, OF. THE TWO THINGS MATCH, BUT ESTHETICALLY IT WOULD LOOK NICER UPTOWN THAN ANY OF THE ANY OF THE BASES THAT YOU CAN USE FOR IT TO TAKE UP ON THAT IN THE UPTOWN COMMITTEE. COMMITTEE. 90 DAYS PER 90 DAYS PER CALENDAR YEAR. DO WE HAVE LANGUAGE THAT SAYS IT DOES NOT RESET IF YOU BRING IT IN FOR A WEEK? DO WE HAVE ANYTHING IN THERE? NO, BUT I THINK THE WAY THAT IT'S WRITTEN IS PRETTY CLEAR. YOU CAN DO NINE INSTANCES OF TEN DAYS OR IT'S NOT CONSECUTIVE. NO, NO. SO IT'S A TOTAL. SO I MEAN THAT'S STILL LIKE ONE WORK WEEK A. YEAH I THINK WE SAID INSTANCE FOR CHURCHES EVERY SUNDAY. THEY COULD PUT ONE OF THESE OUT RIGHT. YEAH. EVEN IF THEY HAD IT ON SATURDAY AND SUNDAY YOU'RE STILL AT 100. BUT OKAY. GOOD.

NUMBER OF YARD SIGNS. THIS WAS A THIS IS LISTED AS A TEMPORARY SIGN IN THE SIGN DEFINITIONS.

AND IN THE IN THE SIGNED COMPREHENSIVE SIGN TABLE. SMALL YARD SIGNS TWO PER PERSON. PER PARCEL FOR COMMERCIAL. SIX FOR RESIDENTIAL. AND AGAIN THE 90 DAYS. AND THIS THE NEW SIGN CODE WILL ELIMINATE THE, I GUESS, UNCONSTITUTIONAL DEFINITIONS THAT WE HAVE RELATING TO LIKE POLITICAL SIGNS, BUSINESS SIGNS, ALL THOSE DEFINITIONS THAT DON'T REALLY FIT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH WITH THE NEW SIGN. SIGN CODE UPDATE. SO THIS JUST SETS THOSE PROVISIONS FOR THAT.

LARGE YARD SIGNS. FOR COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES WILL REQUIRE A PERMIT. AND THERE'S LIKE THE YOU KNOW THEY HAVE THIS WE HAVE THE SIZE PARAMETERS HERE. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL BE ALLOWED FOR 12 MONTHS IN COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS. NO LIMIT FOR RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS THE SIZE OF THE SMALLER YARD SIGN DEFINED. YEAH, WE HAVE THIS WE HAVE THAT DEFINED IN THE GLOSSARY OF SMALL YARD SIGN VERSUS LARGE YARD SIGN. SO I JUST SEE THE LANGUAGE OF THE SIZE FOR THE LARGE HERE. BUT I DON'T SEE IT FOR THE SMALL. YES, IT WAS SMALL CONSIDERED ANYTHING LESS THAN 6FT■!S OR 12FT■!S. I D LOOK AT THE GLOSSARY, BUT YEAH, AS LONG AS IT'S DEFINED. YEAH,

[00:25:04]

DID YOU SAY THAT LARGE YARD SIGNS WILL REQUIRE A PERMIT, WHETHER IT'S A COMMERCIAL OR RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL? JUST FOR COMMERCIAL. SMALL, SMALL YARD SIGN IS SIX SQUARE FEET MAX. THE LARGE IS A MAX OF 12FT■!S. SO RESIDENTIAL IS SIX SQUARE FEET, NO MATTER WHAT, THEN. RIGHT. SMALL OR LARGE? THAT'S A REALTOR SIGN. SO WHAT ABOUT, LIKE, GRADUATION BANNERS? YEAH, LIKE BIRTHDAY SIGNS. BANNERS ARE DIFFERENT. I THINK. RIGHT? YEAH. FOR RESIDENTIAL.

GOTCHA. OKAY, GOOD. V OR VEHICULAR USE AREA SIGNS. I THINK THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ON WHETHER OR NOT WE NEED THIS, THESE PROVISIONS IN HERE. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE SOMETHING TO GO OFF OF. THERE WAS A CONCERN ABOUT THE NUMBER OF PERMITTED AT THE MAX WAS EIGHT. WE'VE REDUCED THAT TO FOUR BUT THEN ALLOWED FOR ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUSTMENT DEPENDING ON THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT. SO I PROBABLY NEED MORE DIRECTIONAL SIGNS TO GET TRAFFIC OUT OF HERE MORE EFFICIENTLY. THIS WOULD ACCOMMODATE THAT. AND THEN WITH THE PROVISION TO ALLOW FOR ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUSTMENT FOR. A PERMIT OR A DRB, IF IT'S 20% OR LESS INCREASE IN SURFACE AREA, THEN THAT ADJUSTMENT COULD BE APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY. IF NOT, THEN IT WOULD. THEY WOULD NEED TO SEEK A VARIANCE TO GO LARGER THAN WHAT THE CODE ALLOWS. ZACH IS THAT FOR ALL SIGN TYPES OR ANY SPECIFIC. I THINK IT'S OVERALL OR I KNOW IT'S FOR WALL SIGNS AND PROJECTION SIGNS, BUT I THINK IT'S ALL OF THAT. OKAY. YEAH. DO YOU GUYS HAVE A PREFERENCE ON IF IT IS LIMITED TO JUST WALL SIGNS OR PROJECTING SIGNS, OR WOULD YOU WANT YOU'D BE ON BOARD FOR ALLOWING THAT ADJUSTMENT FOR ALL SIGN TYPES. I CAN ONLY REALLY THINK OF LIKE THE FEATHER SIGNS. BUT DO WE HAVE HOW MANY SIGN TYPES DO WE HAVE THAT AREN'T RESTRICTED BY SURFACE AREA? THEY'RE ALL RESTRICTED BY SURFACE AREA. OKAY. OKAY. WE GET A LOT. I FEEL LIKE THERE'S A LOT OF REQUESTS FOR MONUMENT SIGNS TO BE TALLER OR LARGER IN SIZE.

PROJECTING SIGNS. WHAT MADE YOU LAND ON 20% FOR ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW? NOT. I THINK WE DIDN'T HAVE A SET OR WE DIDN'T HAVE A THRESHOLD. SO IT'S JUST A JUMPING OFF POINT. IS THERE A FEE FOR THE ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW? IT WOULD JUST BE PART OF THEIR PERMIT REVIEW. IS THERE A FEE FOR BZA? THERE'S AN APPLICATION FEE FOR VARIANCES. YEAH. I THINK WE FELT WITH LIKE THAT 20%, IT'S NOT A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN THAT SIGN SIZE. SO LIKE WE FELT FAIRLY COMFORTABLE APPROVING THAT. TO DOUBLE IT OR EVEN GO 50% LIKE THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK THAT WE WOULD NEED TO CONSIDER. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS LIKE WE SOMETIMES SEE LIKE, YOU KNOW, MIGHT BE LIMITED TO EIGHT SQUARE FEET AND THEY'RE AT 8.33 OR SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, LIKE. YEAH.

THE ONLY ONE I CAN THINK OF IS WITHIN REASON, RIGHT? THE ONLY ONE I CAN THINK OF. AND I'D KIND OF, I GUESS I WOULD HAVE TO DO THE MATH, BUT LIKE THE SINGLE SIGNPOST EXAMPLE THAT WE HAD THAT WAS AT THE 12FT■!S THAT LOOKED REALLY CLOSE TO THE GROUND. 20%. SIGNIFICANT THERE BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO LIKE GO ALL THE WAY TO THE GROUND, WOULDN'T IT? WELL, IT'S STILL THEIR DISCRETION. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S TRUE. YEAH. MOVING ON. I THINK THIS KIND OF CAME UP WITH, LIKE, EASE, WITH THE SIZE OF THAT BUILDING. THOSE SIGNS WITH OUR CURRENT CODE ALLOWS WOULD BE PRETTY SMALL. IT'D BE PRETTY HARD TO SEE FROM 33, 33 AND VISIBILITY. SO THIS GIVES THEM SOME FLEXIBILITY TO BE ABOVE WHAT OUR CODE IS WITHOUT GETTING A VARIANCE. THEY DID NOT INCREASE THAT TO LIKE 3,033%. JUST FOR EASE. I'M OKAY WITH LEAVING IT AT 29 IF WE EVER HAVE TO ADJUST LATER BECAUSE TOO MANY ARE COMING THROUGH, OR TOO MANY ARE GETTING STOPPED NOW. NONE FOR A SIGN. VARIANCES. NOT EVERY MONTH, BUT THAT'S USUALLY WHAT WE GET. VARIANCE REQUEST FOR. IS IT 20%? 15%. SOMETIMES IT'S QUANTITY. SOMETIMES IT'S WE CAN LOOK AND MAYBE WE CAN SEE. WE CAN KIND OF CALCULATE, HEY, ALL OF THESE REQUESTS, HOW MANY HAVE BEEN WITHIN THIS PERCENT. AND IF

[00:30:03]

[00:35:03]

BUT I MEAN, I GUESS WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE THERE BETWEEN AN EXISTING OWNER AND A NEW OWNER THEN. LIKE, WHY WOULD WE REVIEW ANY MONUMENT SIGNS? NOT THAT I WANT TO ADD MORE TO OUR AGENDA.

I'M JUST. NO, BUT IF IT'S LIKE A NEW DEVELOPMENT, THEY WOULD BRING THEIR SIGN PACKAGE THROUGH AND THAT WOULD BE APPROVED BY THE BOARD. YES, BUT ANY OF THOSE SIGN REPLACEMENTS LIKE THIS WOULD MAKE IT SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO COME BACK. I THOUGHT ACTUALLY, WHAT YOU SAID WAS IF IT WAS AN EXISTING THAT INTO THE CODE, RIGHT. FOR NEW DEVELOPMENTS, DO NOT SORRY, NOT EXISTING DEVELOPMENTS BUT MAYBE A NEW A COMPLETELY NEW WALL SIGN THEY ADDED. YEAH. WHEREAS LIKE IF IT'S A TOTALLY NEW DEVELOPMENT AND WE'RE LOOKING AT EVERYTHING HOLISTICALLY, WE'RE GOING TO REVIEW THOSE SIGNS AT THAT TIME. NOW, IF THEY WERE THERE FOR FIVE YEARS AND THEY SAID, OH, WE WANT TO COME BACK AND ADD A MONUMENT OR A WALL SIGN OR REJECTING SIGN, WE WOULD JUST REVIEW THAT ADMINISTRATIVELY. THAT WAS THAT WAS FEEDBACK WE GOT WHEN WE WERE AT THE AT THE STEERING COMMITTEE LEVEL FOR THIS. OKAY. SO WE DO HAVE LIKE THIS CHART THAT STATES IF IT'S MANDATORY REVIEW DISCRETIONARY. WE DID CHANGE THE LANGUAGE TO ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW HERE FOR R. SO DEPENDING ON THE TYPE OF SIGN WE WOULD HAVE DISCRETIONARY REVIEW. SO IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT STAFF DOESN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE APPROVING ADMINISTRATIVELY WE CAN SEND IT TO DRB. WE HAVE A FEW THE IMC'S FREESTANDING AND PROJECTING SIGNS ARE THE MANDATORY ONES THAT GO THROUGH DRB. AND THE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE DISCRETIONARY. WE DO HAVE SOME THAT ARE ADMINISTRATIVE, THAT ARE KIND OF WHAT FALL UNDER OUR FAST TRACK APPLICATION CURRENTLY. SO WE DO STILL HAVE THAT DISCRETIONARY REVIEW SO STAFF DOESN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH IT. IF IT'S A NEW MONUMENT SIGN AND WE DON'T WANT TO, WE DON'T FEEL THAT IT MEETS THE CODE OR IT'S NOT IN THE RIGHT PLACE. WE CAN REQUIRE THEM TO GO TO DRB FOR THEIR REVIEW. BUT WE'RE TRYING TO KIND OF LESSEN SOME OF THE LOAD FOR DESIGN REVIEW BOARD. LIKE LIKE LIKE CURRENTLY LIKE CURRENTLY MOST NEW COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS ARE ALLOWED THREE SIGNS. THEY'RE ALLOWED THE ID SIGN AND TWO BUSINESS SIGNS. AND THIS CODE ALLOWS FOR. SO IF SOME OF THESE BUSINESSES WANT THAT FOURTH SIGN, WE'VE ALREADY APPROVED THREE OF THEIR SIGNS THROUGH DRB. DO WE? IF IT MEETS THE CODE, DO WE REALLY NEED TO BRING IT BACK TO DESIGN REVIEW BOARD FOR AN ADDITIONAL SIGN TO MAKE SURE IT LOOKS COMPATIBLE WITH THE OTHER SIGNAGE? AND DURING THAT REVIEW PROCESS, YOU CAN ALWAYS SEND IT TO MIKE. OKAY, SO CHAD. YEAH, SEND IT TO MR. WALTERS. AND THAT'S THE, I THINK THE ONE IN THE MEETING THAT SAID HE WAS COMFORTABLE HAVING. YEAH.

OKAY. I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. AND THAT'S THE THIS IS THE EXACT LANGUAGE HERE FOR WHAT? REQUIRES A PERMIT. A SIGN TYPE. SO. WELL, I MEAN, WITH YOU, IF, IF IT BUT IF, IF YOU START GETTING INTO TROUBLE, THOUGH, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO. I MEAN, IF IT DOESN'T COME UP, LET'S SAY YOU APPROVE. LESLIE JONES. AND YOU'RE NOT YOU'RE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THE NEXT ONE, AND IT COMES IN FRONT OF US AND WE DISAPPROVE. YOU KNOW, LESLIE JONES, LIKE, IF SHE GOES FOR TWO DIFFERENT SIGNS, YOU APPROVE ONE ADMINISTRATIVELY AND YOU'RE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THE SECOND ONE, AND WE DENY. IS THAT GOING TO BE A PROBLEM? NOT IF. NO. IF YOU IF WE HAVE THE DISCRETIONARY ABILITY TO PUSH THAT ON TO DRB, THAT'S UP TO DRB IS DEFINED AS CODE. YEAH. OKAY. THEN I'M FINE WITH THAT. YEAH. I'M FINE. AND JUST TO TOUCH BACK ON THAT 20% ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUSTMENT, IT IS FOR BANNER SIGNS AND WALL SIGNS CURRENTLY IS HOW THE TABLES HAVE. SO CURRENTLY WE DON'T HAVE IT FOR ALL SIGNS. BUT THAT'S WHAT WAS IN THE PROPOSED WAS BANNER AND WALL. AND THAT WAS I BELIEVE WE DISCUSSED I THINK HONDA MARYSVILLE WAS DOING RENOVATIONS BUT THEY WERE STILL OPEN. BUT BY LOOKING AT IT, WHAT THEY WERE DOING FROM 33 PEOPLE THOUGHT THEY WERE CLOSE. SO THEY PUT UP A SIGN THAT SAYS OPEN UNDER CONSTRUCTION OR WHATEVER, AND IT WAS LARGER THAN WHAT WAS PERMITTED. SO THIS WOULD HELP WITH SOMETHING LIKE THAT. DO YOU GUYS WANT TO LEAVE IT AT JUST

[00:40:01]

48. YEAH. SO I MEAN, THAT WOULD PUSH IT UP TO MANUFACTURING SIZE.

OKAY. YEAH. SO THIS KIND OF GOES BACK TO EARLIER THE EARLIER DISCUSSION WITH THE LANDSCAPING AROUND THE GROUND MOUNTED SIGNS. I THINK, YOU KNOW, STAFF'S PREFERENCE WOULD BE SOMETHING CLOSER TO THE BOTTOM PICTURE AS A REQUIREMENT, WHERE IT COMPLETELY ENCOMPASSES THE BASE OF THAT SIGN VERSUS THE TOP PICTURE, WHERE IT'S JUST TWO SMALL BEDS AROUND THE POST. SO.

WE WANTED TO GAUGE YOUR GUYS'S OPINIONS ON MAYBE ADJUSTING WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED, WHERE IT JUST SAYS TWO FEET FROM THE BASE OF THE SIGN ON ALL SIDES OF THE SIGN. YEAH, I'M IN FAVOR OF SAME. YEAH, THE WHOLE SIGN. I MEAN, PART OF THE IDEA IS MOWING THE LAWN. THAT'S WHAT WE THOUGHT, TOO. LIKE, MAINTENANCE WISE, IT MAKES MORE SENSE IF YOU GOTTA GO UNDERNEATH. BUT IT'S A PAIN, SO. OKAY. NO, I MEAN, AS FAR AS, LIKE, THAT IS A VERY NICE SIGN DOWN BELOW, BUT I GUESS WE PROBABLY JUST WANT. OR AT LEAST A BORDER BETWEEN THE GRASS AND MULCH. I MEAN, MAYBE NOT A WALL. AN EDGE. YES. THANK YOU. IS A LANDSCAPING. NECESSARILY A RAISED PLANT? YEAH. YEAH. WELL, I'D BE IN FAVOR OF IT, BUT. AND THEN DO WE HAVE A REQUIREMENT FOR PLANTINGS OR CAN IT JUST BE JUST. YEAH. WE DON'T AS A LANDSCAPE BED. YEAH, YEAH. SHOULD WE I GUESS. YOU GO EITHER WAY. I THINK WE HAVE SOME ON THERE. I THINK WE COULD PROBABLY LEAVE IT OPEN. LIKE IF THEY WANTED TO PUT ANNUALS IN THERE AND ADD SOME COLOR, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY OKAY.

YEAH. JUST SOME SORT OF PLANT. YEAH. YEAH. IS THERE ANY CONCERN ABOUT IF THEY PUT BUSHES, LIKE, THE MAINTENANCE OF IT? I MEAN, I THINK THEY'RE IDEALLY GOING WANT TO MAINTAIN THEM SO THEY DON'T BLOCK THE SIGN. I'M NOT SURE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD GET INVOLVED WITH UNLESS THERE WAS A COMPLAINT OR IF IT'S CAUSING VISIBILITY ISSUES WITH TRAFFIC OR ANYTHING. BUT VISIBILITY ISSUES. THERE'S WE HAVE THERE'S A PROVISION THAT SAYS LIKE THERE'S SITE TRIANGLES ON LOTS THAT ARE ON, LIKE AT AN INTERSECTION WHERE NO SIGNS ARE PERMITTED, LIKE THEY CAN'T BE LOCATED WITHIN THAT SITE TRIANGLE. SO I THINK INSTANCES OF VISIBILITY CONCERNS WOULD BE MINIMIZED. I THINK WE'RE GOOD. DO WE HAVE LANGUAGE THAT WE WANT, HOW WE WANT TO WRITE THAT? 16. YEAH. DO YOU GUYS HAVE SUGGESTIONS? YOU WANT STAFF TO COMFORTABLE WITH STAFF AROUND THE FOOTPRINT OF THE SIGN? I MEAN. WHATEVER LANGUAGE YOU IT FEELS GOOD BECAUSE IF YOU SAY PERIMETER BASED THAT MIGHT JUST BE THOSE POSTS. YEAH THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. THE FOOTPRINT OF IT.

YEAH. AND THAT THAT'S HOW IT'S WRITTEN RIGHT NOW, I BELIEVE OR JUST I THINK I ADDED THE FOUNDATION IN THE BOTTOM IMAGE ONLY HAS ONE POST, DOESN'T IT? YEAH. IT'S CANTILEVERED OUT. SO JUST JUST SAY THE SIGN. THE TOTAL WIDTH OF THE SIGN MAYBE. YEAH. JUST JUST JUST TAKE AWAY BASE. JUST SAY JUST THE PERIMETER OF THE SIGN. SHADOW OF THE SIGN ON TOP OF SOMETHING WITH THE ENTIRETY OF THE SIGN. IT'S TWO FEET FROM ALL FACES OF THE SIGN. AND SIGN. SIGN, SIGN STRUCTURE. YEAH. YEAH. BECAUSE THEN THE SIGN COULD BE CANTILEVERED FROM THE POST.

YEAH. SO IT JUST KIND OF COVERS ALL BASES. JUST DEVIL'S ADVOCATE. WHAT IF ANY OF THESE

[00:45:07]

WHEN MOUNTED IN GRASS NEEDS TO BE LANDSCAPED. BECAUSE THE SAME THING COULD BE SAID FOR LIKE A, YOU KNOW, LIKE NOT APPLICABLE TO GRAVEL. YOU COULD SAY LIKE GRAVEL. ANY TYPE OF ROADWAY.

WELL, OR LIKE EVEN THE TRUEST SIGN IT'S RIGHT BUMPED UP AGAINST THEIR WALKWAY. I MEAN, YOU CAN'T GO TWO FEET AROUND THAT, RIGHT? I MEAN, THIS WOULD BE APPLIED TO NEW SIGNS, AND THAT SIGN WOULD NOT MEET THE PROPOSED SIGN SETBACK REQUIREMENTS, WHERE IT'S GOT TO BE A CERTAIN DISTANCE BACK FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY. I THINK JUST ADDING A. THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO VEHICULAR USE AREA SIGNS. I THINK COVERS THE CONCERNS WITH LIKE SIGNS THAT MIGHT BE IN THE PARKING LOT OR PARKING LOT ISLANDS. RIGHT. AND THERE ARE VEHICULAR USE AREA SIGNS THAT ARE AT THE ENTRANCE OF THE ACCESS POINT. SO THOSE WOULD BE IN GRASS. SO I MEAN, TECHNICALLY IF YOU SAID IF THEY'RE INSTALLING GRASS THEN THEY NEED IT. SO THEN THOSE WOULD NEED IT TO THEN OR WE JUST ELIMINATE ALL THE VEHICULAR USE AREA SIGNS. YEAH THAT SOUNDS BETTER. I JUST DON'T WANT TO GET STUCK WITH A GOTCHA WHERE IT'S LIKE, WELL, I CAN'T LANDSCAPE THIS. WELL, THE VEHICULAR USE AREA SIGNS ARE A LOT SMALLER SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT THEY'RE PERMITTED. SO I THINK THAT ALSO. YEAH, AND I THINK TO MISS BOB'S POINT ABOUT STUFF GROWING UP AND BLOCKING THE SIGN, YOU REALLY DON'T WANT THAT WITH YOUR V SIGNS. THEY'RE TELLING YOU HOW TO GET OUT OF THE PARKING LOT. SO. OKAY, GOOD. YOU KNOW, I, I STILL THINK PUTTING SOMETHING MORE LIKE THE DESIGN STANDARDS WHERE YOU JUST SAY LIKE TWO LANDSCAPING FEATURES AS OPPOSED TO SPECIFICALLY SAYING THERE HAS TO BE A LANDSCAPE BED, BECAUSE I'M SURE THERE'S PLENTY OF WAYS TO BEAUTIFUL POTTED PLANTS OR, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT CAN CHANGE OUT WITH THE SEASONS. I DON'T KNOW, JUST SAYING THAT IT HAS TO BE A LANDSCAPE BED JUST FEELS VERY RESTRICTIVE. WE USED TO HAVE THIS IN OUR PREVIOUS ZONING CODE, AND THEN WHEN WE REDID IT IN 2020, IT ACCIDENTALLY GOT NOT CARRIED OVER. SO WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO THIS WITH THE APPLICANTS, LIKE WHEN THEY BRING A MONUMENT SIGN TO DRB. WE'LL STILL REQUEST, CAN YOU PLEASE ADD THIS? AND EVERYONE'S USUALLY, YOU KNOW, WILLING TO DO THAT. IT HELPS WITH MAINTENANCE AROUND THE BASE OF THE DESIGN AND WHATNOT. LANDSCAPING IS NOT A TERRIBLY EXPENSIVE LIFT. I GET THAT. SO WE WANTED TO TRY AND BRING THAT BACK INTO THE CODE. OUR PREVIOUS ONE WAS 50FT■!S. SO LIKE IF YOU HAD A POST AND PANEL AND YOU ONLY HAD ONE PANEL AND YOU DO 50FT■!S OF LANDSCAPE AROD IT, THAT'S QUITE A BIT. SO THAT'S WHY WE TRY TO ADJUST IT TO THE TWO FEET AROUND THE SIGN. ARE WE JUST GOING TO REQUIRE MULCH BEDS OR IS THERE JUST A MULCH. OKAY. SO NO, NOBODY CAN DO LIKE DECORATIVE ROCKS OR.

RIGHT. LIKE A LAVA ROCK OR A GRAVEL, A RIVER ROCK. I MEAN, THAT'S WHERE I COULD SEE PEOPLE BEING, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WHO'S LIKE, I WANT SOMETHING THAT'S KIND OF LOW MAINTENANCE. OR IF YOU ARE A GRAVEL COMPANY, IT MAKES SENSE TO HAVE PRETTY GRAVEL DISPLAY IN YOUR SIGN.

YOU'RE USED TO LANDSCAPE BED. JUST WE JUST SAY REQUIRED A LANDSCAPE BED. WE DON'T SAY WHAT'S, YOU KNOW, NOW, IF YOU WENT BACK AND YOU LOOKED AT LANDSCAPE BED IN OUR GLOSSARY DEFINITION, I MEAN, BUT IF. WELL, THE ONLY REASON I ASK IS. PEOPLE COULD COME AND JUST SAY, YEAH, I JUST WANT THE ROCK BEDS. BUT IF YOU GUYS SPECIFICALLY WANT MULCH BEDS, I THINK, I MEAN, I'M IN SUPPORT IF THAT'S WHAT YOU GUYS FEEL THAT LIKE THAT. YEAH. LIKE THAT'S NOT I

[00:50:10]

ANY FAMILY BUSINESSES? BUT ANYWAY, WE THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO ALLOW THAT BACK AS A AS A PERMITTED SIGN TYPE IN SOME OF THE COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS. WE'VE ALSO ADDED IN IT WAS MISSED WITH THE SIGN CODE UPDATE. PROHIBITED SIGN TYPES LIKE TEMP SIGNS THAT ARE PLACED IN THE RIGHT OF WAY OR ON CITY OWNED PROPERTY. WE'VE ADDED THOSE INTO PROHIBITED SIGNS AND ALSO ADDED A PROVISION THAT ANY SIGNS PLACED IN THOSE LOCATIONS WILL BE REMOVED WITHOUT PREVIOUS OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTIFICATION. AND THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH HOW WE OUR CURRENT CODE IS. BUT THE PROPOSED CODE, WE JUST MISSED THAT IN THE INITIAL DRAFT. SO WE'VE ADDED THAT BACK IN. MANUAL CHANGEABLE COPY SIGNS. AGAIN THIS IS A SIGN TYPE THAT WE GET APPLICATIONS FOR. AND IT WAS PROHIBITED. I THINK THERE'S SOME VALUE IN ALLOWING THOSE AS WE ADD THOSE AS WALL SIGNS AND MONUMENT SIGNS ONLY. I BELIEVE SO, YEAH. DO WE HAVE ANY LANGUAGE TO KEEP THEM FROM LOOKING RUN DOWN? THESE TEND TO HAVE MISMATCHED LETTERS AND FADED. AND SO THEY WOULD FALL UNDER THAT SET. SO BOUGHT A SECOND AND NOW THEY DON'T MATCH. AND UNDER THE MATERIALS PROVISION THAT WE ADDED IN THAT THEY HAVE TO BE DURABLE AND NOT PRONE TO FADING OR CRACKING. AND THEN IF THEY DO FALL INTO DISREPAIR, THEY'RE SUBJECT TO THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE PROVISIONS OF THE CODE. AND THEN THESE ARE NOT THE EXCEPTION IS MANUFACTURING DISTRICT. WE

[00:55:04]

AND THEN AGAIN, AS WE CONTINUE TO REVIEW THE DOCUMENT, WE'VE GOT A FEW MORE UPDATES THAT WEREN'T ON THE PACKET THAT WENT OUT. SO FOR THE MAXIMUM CUMULATIVE NUMBER OF SIGNS, THE IDEA BEHIND THIS WAS TO ALLOW FOR MORE SIGNS PER BUSINESS. WE KIND OF CAUGHT THIS THE WAY THAT IT'S WRITTEN BASED ON THE NUMBER OF PUBLIC ENTRANCES. IF YOU HAD A SINGULAR SINGLE BUSINESS, THEY HAVE EIGHT PUBLIC ENTRANCES INTO THEIR ONE BUILDING. THEY GET TEN MORE SIGNS OR 16 MORE SIGNS. SO WE PROPOSED THIS EDIT WHERE THAT PROVISION BE FOR SIGNS FOR THE FIRST PUBLIC ENTRANCE, PLUS TWO ADDITIONAL SIGNS PER EACH ADDITIONAL PUBLIC ENTRANCE IS ONLY FOR PARCELS THAT HAVE MORE THAN ONE BUSINESS. SO IF IT'S A STANDALONE SINGLE UNIT, SINGLE BUSINESS UNIT FOUR IS THE MAX.

BUT IF YOU HAVE 2 OR 3 OR HOWEVER MANY, BECAUSE THE NUMBER OF SIGNS PERMITTED IS BASED ON THE PARCEL, NOT ON THE BUILDING. SO LIKE ON COLEMAN'S CROSSING WHERE JIMMY JOHN'S IS, THAT'S FOR FOUR SIGNS FOR THAT WHOLE PARCEL, BUT TWO MORE SIGNS FOR EACH PUBLIC ENTRANCE. SO EACH ONE OF THOSE BUSINESSES CAN HAVE ADEQUATE SIGNAGE WITHOUT GOING OVERBOARD. OKAY. SO THESE ITEMS WERE GOING THROUGH. NOW WE'LL HAVE TO MAKE SURE, YOU KNOW, THIS GETTING CHANGED. MAYBE THE LANDSCAPE ITEM. THOSE ARE ALL GOING TO NEED TO BE CONDITIONAL APPROVAL. SO WE CAN UPDATE THOSE BEFORE WE HEAD TO COUNCIL ON MONDAY. OKAY. SO IF YOU GUYS ARE GOOD WITH THIS WE CAN MAKE THIS A. IS THIS THE LAST ONE? NO WE GOT OKAY OKAY. SORRY, SORRY SORRY. JUST A FEW. WE LOVE THE SIGNS. JEFF KIND OF TOUCHED ON THIS EARLIER. SO THIS CHART HAD IT WAS A LITTLE CONFUSING WHERE IT HAD THE MANDATORY DISCRETIONARY AND REVIEW AFTER ADMINISTRATIVE REFERRAL. WE'VE CHANGED THAT TO JUST ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW. JUST BECAUSE THE WAY IT WAS WRITTEN WAS A LITTLE CONFUSING. SO, YOU KNOW, THE CIRCLES INDICATE WHETHER A PERMIT IS REQUIRED, NOT REQUIRED. AND THEN WHAT THE REVIEW PROCESS IS SO DISCRETIONARY MANDATORY DRB OR ADMINISTRATIVE. IS THAT WE HAVE A SORRY. CAN YOU GO BACK TO THAT JEFF. WE HAVE A PERMIT AND A NOT PERMIT ON THE DOOR SIGN. YEAH. SO IF IT'S A WINDOW AND DOOR SIGN THAT'S UNDER A CERTAIN SQUARE FOOTAGE, TYPICALLY IT HAS THE HOURS OF OPERATION OR PHONE NUMBER THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE A PERMIT. I ASSUME THAT'S WHAT NUMBER TWO SAYS THE. WE DID ADD FOR THE LARGE YARD SIGN. SINCE THEY HAVE TO GET A PERMIT. WE DO HAVE IT AS R IT WAS NOT ON THE TABLE ON THE DRAFT THAT I HAD SENT OUT. SO WE DID ADD THE R TO THAT ONE. IT'S NOT ON THIS PICTURE BECAUSE IT WENT TO TWO PAGES, BUT THE LARGE YARD SIGN WHERE IT DOES SAY PERMITS REQUIRED. WE DIDN'T HAVE A DESIGN REVIEW BOARD REQUIRED NOTE THERE. SO WE DID PUT R THERE. SO THAT WOULD BE ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW. MONUMENT SIGNS IN RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS. THIS IS TYPICALLY FOR LIKE SUBDIVISIONS. THE CURRENT CODE OR THE CURRENT DRAFT WAS TWO PER TEN ACRES OF SUBDIVISION.

THOUGHT THAT MIGHT BE KIND OF PROBLEMATIC TO ADMINISTER. SO WE WERE PROPOSING ONE PER DEVELOPMENT ENTRANCE OR ACCESS POINT. AND ACCESS POINTS ARE GOING TO BE DETERMINED BY THE DIVISION OF ENGINEERING. WHEN THEY'RE DOING THEIR GOING THROUGH THE PLANNING PROCESS. SO THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE TOO CLOSE TOGETHER. DO WE HAVE. IS THE LANGUAGE DIFFERENT IF WE IF THERE WAS LIKE, SAY, A SERVICE ENTRANCE OR LIKE AN EMERGENCY ENTRANCE THAT'S NOT CONSIDERED AN ACCESS POINT, RIGHT. OR CONSTRUCTION ENTRANCE? YEAH. IT WOULDN'T BE A DEVELOPMENT, IT WOULDN'T BE A MAIN DEVELOPMENT ENTRANCE I DON'T. IT'S A GOOD QUESTION. COULD I HAVE A SIGN?

[01:00:11]

THEN THEY CAN ONLY DO ONE OR THE OTHER 200. YEAH. 200FT. YEAH 200FT. LINEAR FEET. NOT SQUARE FEET OKAY. YES. DOES THE LANGUAGE SAY LIKE ONE FOR DEVELOPMENT ENTRANCE OR. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SUBJECT TO OTHER STIPULATIONS. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WOULD NEED TO INCLUDE THAT BECAUSE WHEN WE REVIEW SIGN APPLICATIONS WE'RE REVIEWING THE WHOLE THING, THE WHOLE BOX. OKAY. SO CURRENTLY THESE BOXES YOU ADDED THERE, JEFF, IF YOU GO UP A PAGE. OH I THOUGHT YOU WERE LOOKING. SO THIS IS HOW IT'S CURRENTLY SHOWN FOR, FOR THE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT S R, D A, R D AND VRD IT SAYS TWO PER TEN ACRES BUT THEN UNDER REVIEW. SORRY. SC, HMD AND NCD. SO WE HAVE SOME MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENTS IN THERE IN THOSE DISTRICTS. ONE PER VEHICLE CURB CUT. AND WE FELT LIKE THAT MIGHT ALSO HAPPEN ON WITH MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE NOT TECHNICALLY CONSIDERED SUBDIVISIONS PER LOT SPLIT REQUIREMENTS WITHIN THAT RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT. SO THAT'S ALSO WHY WE WANTED TO MODIFY THAT, TO ALLOW VARIOUS TYPES OF RESIDENTIAL TO FIT UNDER THAT SRT. BUT YEAH, ON THAT NEXT PAGE THAT JEFF HAD OF IT, IT DOES HAVE OTHER REQUIREMENTS THAT THEY HAVE TO MEET AS WELL. PLUS YOU CAN ALWAYS DENY OR APPROVE OR DENY ANY PREFERENCE. YEAH. WE CAN MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION THAT THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AT THIS ENTRANCE OR MORE OF A SECONDARY TYPE OF MONUMENT SIGN VERSUS A MAIN. MAIN. YEAH. WE ALSO THOUGHT WITH THIS TWO PER TEN ACRES OF SUBDIVISION, IT DOESN'T REALLY STATE WHERE IT'S LOCATED AT. I MEAN, IT JUST SAYS HAS THE SEPARATION OF 200FT. SO LIKE SKY BROOK, IT'S 115 ACRES. SO I MEAN SO THE MILL VALLEY ONLY HAS TWO ENTRANCES. YEAH. SO I MEAN, THEY, THEY TECHNICALLY BASED ON THAT, IT DOESN'T SAY IT HAS TO BE AT THE ENTRANCE. SO THEY COULD HAVE THAT MANY SIGNS ALL THE WAY AROUND THEIR DEVELOPMENT. WE'RE PUTTING IT AS ONE CURB CUT. THEN THAT KIND OF DICTATES KIND OF THE LOCATION. I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THEM PUT IT TOO FAR AWAY FROM THE CURB CUTS. I MEAN, THEY'RE GOING TO WANT TO MAKE SURE THEIR ENTRANCES ARE KNOWN, BUT WE DON'T WANT THEM TO BE OVER IT TO TRY TO SELL THEIR PRODUCT AND HAVE THEIR SIGNS EVERYWHERE.

WHAT IF MARYSVILLE EAST DID NOT GO FOR PD AND THEY JUST WENT FOR A REGULAR SIGNAGE? WHAT WOULD WE DO FOR THAT LARGE MONUMENT SIGN IF THEY WANTED TO PUT ON THAT HIGHWAY ALONG LIKE DELAWARE AVENUE? I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE A CURB CUT INTO THE DEVELOPMENT. SO I THINK THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED TO HAVE ONE THERE. AND THEN AS YOU, AS YOU HAVE A CURB CUT INTO EACH INDIVIDUAL SUBDIVISION, YOU WOULD HAVE ONE AT THAT. BUT HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE FOUNDRY. NO, NO, NO I'M TALKING I'M TALKING ABOUT MARYSVILLE. NO, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ONE BY THE HIGHWAY. YEAH, OKAY. ABOVE THE DELAWARE. YEAH. EVERY BRANCH OFF TO EVERY. YEAH. SUBDIVISION OR SECTION. YEAH. WOULD HAVE ANOTHER. YEAH. THAT'S HOW I WOULD INTERPRET IT. OR YOU GUYS. YEAH. AND THEN NOW FOR THE ONE THAT THE FOUNDRY, IF THAT WASN'T PD WE WOULD DENY THAT LAST TIME. YES. THE ONE ALONG THE HIGHWAY.

NOW TO KIND OF PIGGYBACK ON THAT, WE DO HAVE A PROVISION THAT WE'VE ADDED FOR. SO PULL SIGNS ARE CURRENTLY PROHIBITED. AND UNDER THIS NEW CODE THEY'RE PROHIBITED. PROHIBITED IN MOST DISTRICTS. BUT IF THEY'RE WITHIN 200FT OF THE US 33 RIGHT OF WAY, THEY CAN HAVE A PULL SIGN. YEAH, UP TO 25FT IN HEIGHT. NOT TO GO TOO OFF THE ROAD. I JUST DON'T WANT TO TAKE 90S THE SIGN THAT'S

[01:05:09]

OH ON THE INDUSTRIAL PARK SIGN. YEAH. NO. THE ONE ON THE 33 SIDE HAD LIGHTS OUT ON THE BOTTOM AT LEAST LAST TIME. INNOVATION PARK. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. MAINTENANCE AND UPKEEP. WE HAVE SOME. YEAH. ELECTRICAL ON THAT. WELL, HE GOES BACK. IF YOU MUCK BOOTS ON, START CHANGING BULBS.

FOR LEDS I'M SURE. RIGHT. IT'S GOING TO HAVE ALREADY BEEN REPLACED. HE'S GOING TO GO OUT THERE TOMORROW AND HE'D BE LIKE YOU HAVE TO CHANGE IT. BUT YEAH. AND SO IF THERE WAS A BUSINESS PARK THAT CAME NOW WE DO HAVE I MEAN IT COULD BE A BUSINESS PARK SIGN WHERE WE, WE DO HAVE ALLOWANCES FOR TALLER SIGNS LIKE ON THE END OF COLEMAN'S CROSSING. YEAH. I DON'T REMEMBER WHERE THAT IS. WHERE DO THOSE. I THINK IT'S UNDER THE MONUMENT SIGN. YEAH. THE NUMBER OF SIGNS FOR MULTIPLE BUSINESSES CAN GO. THEY CAN GET AN INCREASE IN HEIGHT AND HAVE MORE SIGN PANELS BASED ON THE NUMBER OF TENANTS. AND THEN WE DID HAVE THE ONE ABOUT WITHIN SO MANY FEET OF 33 THERE. IT GIVES AN INCREASE. WE BELIEVE YOU JEFF. NEXT NEXT. RIGHT PAST THAT 92ND. SO THIS WILL BE A CHANGE WE'LL HAVE TO MAKE IN 1121. AND ALL THE DIFFERENT DISTRICT TYPOLOGY CHARTS. WE'LL JUST CHANGE THE LANGUAGE HERE TO REFERENCE CHAPTER 1129. SO IF YOU GO TO VRD OR SRT WHERE IT SAYS PERMITTED SIGN TYPES, IT'LL SAY SEE CHAPTER 1129 AND HAVE A LINK TO THAT CHAPTER. AND THEN REMOVING SOME OBSOLETE DEFINITIONS, DEFINITIONS THAT ARE NOT BEING USED ANYMORE AND COPYING USE OR UNCONSTITUTIONAL. AND THEN THIS WILL INCLUDE. LIKE TEMPORARY SIGNS WILL BE CLASSIFIED UNDER BANNERS OR YARD SIGNS. WE ALSO JUST HAD SOME DUPLICATES FROM THE PRIOR CODE THAT NEED TO BE CLEANED UP. YEAH. SO OUR NEW THESE DEFINITIONS WILL BE UNDER APPENDIX IN THE GLOSSARY. SO IN THE CURRENT GLOSSARY ANY DUPLICATES WILL BE REMOVED SO THAT ALL THE DEFINITIONS APPLICABLE TO THE SIGNS WILL BE IN ONE AREA. FOR MURALS, I MEANT TO ADD IN A COUPLE PICTURES TO GET YOU, JUST TO GET YOUR FEEDBACK, BUT I FORGOT TO DO THAT. SO PLEASE IGNORE THAT BOTTOM BULLET. BUT RIGHT NOW THEY CAN GO UP TO 75% OF THE SERVICE AREA. THINK ABOUT HATFIELD CORNER. THAT'S 100% OF THE SURFACE AREA. WANTED TO SEE WHAT YOU GUYS ARE COMFORTABLE WITH INCREASING IT TO 100%, MAINTAINING 75%. WHY WOULD WE LIMIT IT? WE DON'T WANT TO LIMIT IT. WE WANT ALL REALS, ALL THE MURALS. WE WANT ALL THE MURALS, ALL THE OTHER. WE'RE NOT AGAINST THEM. NO. I THINK OUR INITIALLY OUR THOUGHT WELL ORIGINALLY IT SAID 1000FT■!S I THINK. AND THEN WE SAID WELL THAT WE MIGHT HAVE ONES THAT ARE LARGER THAN THAT. AND WE STARTED THINKING ABOUT LEON'S. AND THEN TODAY IT WAS WE

[01:10:04]

GOOD JOB I THINK THAT'S THE LAST ONE. I MEAN I'M MISSING THE PICTURES FROM THE MURAL, BUT I'LL SURVIVE. WELL, THANKFULLY I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT A MURAL LOOKS LIKE I DON'T. KNOW, I CAN'T THINK OF. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? HAVE ANY CITIZENS CHANGED THEIR MINDS? WANT TO TALK? OKAY. IT WAS RIVERDALE STILL, SO. OKAY, SO DO WE HAVE A MOTION WITH CONDITIONS OF THE REVISIONS WE SPOKE ABOUT FOR LANDSCAPING AND ALL OF THE LAST FEW SLIDES, CHANGES, ADJUSTMENTS. THERE WAS MORE THAN JUST LANDSCAPING. WE TALKED ABOUT THE SIGNPOST COMING DOWN SIX FOOT MOUNTAIN, EVEN THOUGH IT'S AN EIGHT FOOT POLE. OKAY. YES. YEAH. I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE SIGN CODE, INCLUDING ALL OF THE COMMENTS BROUGHT FORTH DURING TODAY'S MEETING.

THE STAFF AS FAR AS LANDSCAPING AND SIGN POST HEIGHTS SUCH AS THOSE. I SECOND THAT. JEFF, I SECOND IT. OKAY, WE HAVE ROLL CALL, PLEASE. MR. YES, MR. NICKERSON? YES. MISS VERBOSE? YES, MR. FISHER. YES, MISS. LAUB. YES. ALL RIGHT. THAT TAKES US TO DISCUSSION ITEMS. ANYTHING TO DISCUSS? I DON'T THINK SO. THIS WAS A BIG DISCUSSION. IT WAS ACTUALLY A BIG DISCUSSION.

OUR GOAL IS TO GET TO COUNCIL ON MONDAY. I THINK WE'RE VERY PRODUCTIVE ON THIS. WE'RE TO.

AND I'M GLAD WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY OTHER AGENDA ITEMS. THIS ALLOWED US A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME TO GO

[DESIGN REVIEW BOARD LIAISON REPORT]

AND I NOTICED THEY CHANGED. I MEAN, YEAH, YEAH YEAH. ADMIN ADMINISTRATIVE IS JUST. YEAH.

[01:15:08]

YEAH, THAT WE HAD WE HAD THE HOMETOWN AUTO THAT THAT PUT ALL THE THINGS YOU FORGOT. HOMETOWN.

TO GET THAT THAT GOT TABLED AS WELL. IS THIS THE ONE THAT WENT TO LIKE NINE, 30, 45. IT WAS A LATE MEETING. YEAH, YEAH. A LONG MEETING BEFORE THIS THAT I WAS INVOLVED IN. MY BRAIN IS MUSH.

SO CHICK FIL A SENT US NEW DRAWINGS. CORRECT. ARE YOU GOING TO SHARE THEM TOMORROW? TOMORROW WE WILL SEND THEM OUT WITH THE PACKET. YEP. WHAT ARE THE THOUGHTS OF ADMINISTRATION? WELL, I THINK IT DEFINITELY MEETS KIND OF WHAT WHAT THE BOARD HAD RELAYED. SO GOOD. ALL

[COMMENTS OF INDIVIDUAL BOARD MEMBERS]

ALL RIGHT THEN WITH THAT MOTION TO ADJOURN, MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.

I. SAME OR OPPOSED SAME. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.